Average Vehicle Age

[zeroland]

Any guesses on the average vehicle age for trans-Africa trips?

I recently spent hours surfing various websites searching for the elusive vehicle age and compared the age of the vehicle vs the departure dates listed on The Africa Overland Network website.

You can read more on the data collected via the Overland Live blog. Stats include vehicle year for trips departing 2010 through to 2014.

A summary as follows:


The blog goes into additional detail.

[moggy 1968]

mine is 23 years old. Toyota Landcruiser. currently being renovated ready for a new life of trips

[zeroland]

Originally Posted by moggy 1968

mine is 23 years old. Toyota Landcruiser. currently being renovated ready for a new life of trips

80 Series or older?

[Thimba]

mine is 22 and - after 400.000 km - still going strong

Cheers,

Gee

[tacr2man]

Mine is now entering its 28th year all original , and am just completeing
conversion from V8 petrol to BMW 3ltr turbo diesel ready for a few more years to wherever

[Bermuda Rover]

Mine's a '93 Defender, so 20 years old.

[moggy 1968]

Originally Posted by zeroland

80 Series or older?

last of the 60s

[Niva Say Never]

+1 for he 23 yr old Landcruiser 60, perfect for our needs

[Surfy]

Thank you for doing these statistics!

Mine is built at 2011, i guess it will change the statistic for land cruisers a lot ;-)

Comfort and Power - i would not want to take an older car for a transafrica.

V8 Diesel with 289HP (Euro4), AHC (Active Hight Control), Adaptive Variable Suspension (AVS), Crawl, JBL 14-speaker system, Iphone Integration, USB Connection, Hard Disk Drive (HDD) Navigation, Anti-theft system, Sunroof, 14 Airbags, Pre Crash Safety System, 4 Zone Aircon, Pollen filter, Active Traction control (A-TRC).

For shure that is not necessary, but its a pleasure to drive ;-)

Just want to mention with that post, that it isn't necessary to use the real old hardware because you can read it anywhere. You can use to newer ones, if you want.

It speak nothing against an older car who has less electronics and is easy to fix near anywhere. But they aren't the only option.

Electronic aids can safe lives. Airbags too.

When you arguing that you will drive slowly.. Does that help if the locals don't drive relaxed? So long you can't break each tyre separately you can't get the same result like an car with ESP in some dangerous situations. There are always advantages and disadvantages ;-) To change the perspective from time to time doesn't hurt.

Surfy

[roamingyak]

Originally Posted by Surfy

Thank you for doing these statistics!

Mine is built at 2011...

Comfort and Power - i would not want to take an older car for a transafrica.

Surfy

Mate. You took a two month holiday/rally in Africa. Two months! Do you really think that qualifies you to offer definitive advice? Come on….

Did you even have to do one oil change on the trip?

Newer vehicles are good until something goes wrong. Then they can be very uncomfortable, both personally as you are stranded and on your wallet.

In some countries it can't be fixed at all, or only in the capital city which might be 600km away. And it will be very expensive if it needs new imported parts. I've spent over two months camping in different garages around Africa and there are always newer vehicles effectively stuck there "waiting for parts'…. Most of the mechanics have no idea when its a newer electronic vehicle. A lot of the time it will only be in the capital city, possibly only in the official dealership, that you can solve complex problems…

I guess this is getting easier as there are a lot of newer modern vehicles in Africa now but not by any means will a mechanic in a small town be able to plug in a computer to your latest model 4x4 - he's not even likely to have electricity to run his computer… ;-p If your model/brand is not the same as the newer cars being imported then it doesn't help much.

In such a short trip as yours a newer vehicle might be an acceptable risk, but anybody doing a 1 year plus trip is likely to have some problems along the way, and these can ground you for weeks on end and seem hopeless to solve in some cases… as is true of any vehicle, but more so with the more 'electronic' it is.

Fuel quality is improving in Africa, especially down the west coast with new Total stations, but on a longer trip I suspect a newer vehicle will start to suffer from the poor quality fuel and replacing a fuel injection pump/injectors in Africa is not going to be cheap or much fun I suspect.

I slide around in the mud in Congo and whacked my front wing in - on an older vehicle it was easy enough to patch up and continue with - on yours it would have been an expensive nightmare replacing the lights etc

Travelling with many types of different vehicles it was interesting to see how differently we were all treated at the checkpoints and borders - in general an older battered vehicle or motorbike is a big advantage from my experience.

Not sure how the Carnets are in Swissland, but in other countries newer vehicles present a huge carnet deposit/insurance issue.

I could go on and on… ;-p

It's about risk. On a quick sprint like yours, a well kept new vehicle is unlikely to have any serious problems and give you the pampered comfort you desire. But if it did, it might mean the end of your trip depending on where it happened, as you simply would run out of time to fix it and complete the rest of your schedule. A well looked after older vehicle is also unlikely to suffer any serious problems, but if so it would likely only take 2-3 days to solve. For example:
IHANA.COM� big trip� -� diary - accidents - Guyana jungle trail snaps timing belt and halfshaft

With the newer roads in Africa people are taking shorter trips in newer cars, you can do it in anything when the roads are 95% sealed. (I'd drive a Smart car down the east coast if paid, it wouldn't be a huge problem…. or much fun, but at least when I got come I could tell people I'd driven across Africa!!)

At the end of the day its your personal choice, and you'll be the one who enjoys or suffers, or both, because of it. But for a longer 'proper' trip I'd say a older vehicle refurbished as new is the way to go...

When forced into a decision, I always think, "What would each choice mean if the worst happened on a dirt track 600km from anywhere….?" If your vehicle stopped with a serious problem on the track below in northern Angola, would you be able to fix it yourself? If not, what would lessen the risk or help when the worst happened?

[Surfy]

Roamingyak i would like to see a bit of tolerance about other people and the way how they travel.

Is it neccesarry to frequently repeat at hubb, that i did a rally trough africa? Did i really drive a rally? What is a rally? Maybe we have to discuss this point deeper in a special thread or pm or even here.

You dont have to like me, to like my style of travelling, dont have to work on your prejudices.

Opposing views could be an enrichment in the discussion. It should be fair enough to let speak arguments and experience, without any attitude.

For shure my "Setup-Test" was short with less mileage. It was to test the setup of the car, the equipment, to approve everything for "more"...
I`m shure you are not the only one who think that i will strand somewhere with heavy problems. I will share my progress soon i start therefore you also will be able to watch me progress.

I dont try to say the a modern car is the "better" way to travel extended. I try to say that this is an "real" option in the meantime.

There are always advantages and disadvantages ;-) To change the perspective from time to time doesn't hurt.

I argue these way not because my brand new car survive our testride. I argue this way because we meet these modern cars, driven by locals.

Guess what car we meet here, on the Cameroon/Congo border... There is pretty less traffic, not common for overlanders, not common for any traffic i guess.



We meet an Land Cruiser 200 Diesel.. In the middle of no where. But we saw too modern cars all over africa, not just in the capitals.

For shure they are not the majority, but there are locals, NGOs, the government who drive these. I guess the maintain these, fix these too, and not burn them when they stop working.

I dont know exactly how old your africa experience is, i cant talk about how it was - i just can say what i saw there at the end of 2012.

The Total Fuel stations you mentioned, we dont see many of them on the west route??? They get rare starting before Kiffa, Maretania. Maybe we miss the "main" route who is common by transafrica travellers.

We use too barrels in congo. But we filtrate every single liter before it goes in the tank - anytime anywhere from Morocco till Namibia.

Yes there is a risk with newer cars that you have to flight in some spares, to let carry your car to a bigger city and so on.

In my personal "risk calculation" there was some other points much higher rated on a transafrica - like become a hostage, get beaten by a scorpion, robbed, killed, had an accident and so on.

Specially at the "accident" theme - i would prefere a modern vehicle Not to fix it afterwards. Just to survive.

Do you really focus your eyes on Breakdowns? It has to do with probability and risk. I dont know if your "old refurnished" has a better calculation rate at the end. It is easier to fix but you have to fix... But that is my personal view.

Travelling with many types of different vehicles it was interesting to see how differently we were all treated at the checkpoints and borders - in general an older battered vehicle or motorbike is a big advantage from my experience.

We had mostly good experiences. Compared to other travel blogs - good experiences. And i read a lot of blogs of travellers. Really a lot...

What would each choice mean if the worst happened on a dirt track 600km from anywhere….?"

I guess you mean with "worst happened" noting serious worst (like killed, robbed, injoured, been bitten by an animal and so on) and just an breakdown?

I guess when my car breaks 600km from nowhere - i did something wrong to a high percentage (too fast, car not well maintained, car not well equipped, driving stupid).

On a less percentage there is really something, my engine dies at sample.

Personally i think that it dont count there if new or old, that will need time to get help, time to get it fixed and so on. For shure it will be more expensive with an V8 than too...

Surfy

[moggy 1968]

I'm with the Yak.
Those new cars you saw will be a very different specification to yours. One of the things Toyota did, which was one of the reasons for their dominance in many markets over landrover, was they changed the specification of their vehicles depending on the market they were sold into. An Africa spec new Landcruiser will be very different to one from the Swiss showroom.

Most NGOs have their own mechanics and workshops, but even so, most will use 'local spec vehicles.

I think the Yak refers to your trip as a 'rally' because of your very high average speed, which is considerably higher than the average speed currently on my Hilux's computer for my last year of driving in the UK, and I'm no slouch, and I am fortunate enough not to have to commute in the rush hour! Sure, down the tarmacked Western Sahara road where there is no traffic you could easily exceed that kind of average, but as an average over the whole of a trip through the kind of areas you were driving through that average speed is very high indeed. Hopefully on your next trip your speed may be lower as you have less time pressure to kill the miles.

everyone has their own calculation of risk, but an vehicle disabling electronic failure 500 miles from anywhere will kill you just as easily (although rather more slowly) than an accident. Most mechanical failures aren't permanently vehicle disabling and those that are, such as complete gearbox failure, will have a fair degree of warning before it happens.

I think it is a bit unfair to say one persons trip is more valid or more creditable than someone else's though. We all have our own personal experiences and to say one persons trip is less valid than another is IMHO wrong, whether that trip was a week, 2 months or 20 years

I agree with your sentiment about a change of perspective, even if that perspective is wrong

vive la difference!

[zeroland]

I have enjoyed reading the commentary on this topic, and the different opinions.

The focus here seems to be on reliability and fix-it-if-it-breaks.

What about the cost of buying the vehicle? Perhaps the reason the vehicles are so old are because its price related? And that most of them at this age have already completed one trans-Africa trip?

[moggy 1968]

I dreamed of travelling to Africa since I was in my teens (which is a while ago!) but believed all that rubbish in the off road mags that you need a 20k+ vehicle with the same again in goodies and then thousands for the trip. The reality was, it was never going to happen. There was no way I could afford that. Then one drunken night my dad enrolled the pair of us on the Plymouth Dakar challenge.
All cars are supposed to cost around £100 with about the same spent on prepping them. We drove an old Suzuki sj413.



This was before the West Coast Link road was built so the trip included about 500 miles of desert piste driving, not much by many peoples standards I know, but for me, it was the most exciting moment of my life, to realise the dream of driving in the sahara. All the hype was that you must get a guide for the desert section. We didn't. Instead a team of us joined forces and went into the desert without one. For someone who had never driven outside Europe this seemed a formidable challenge.



I loved the trip, but most of all I loved the fact it proved you don't need to bust the bank to travel and all the hype was wrong. of the 20 vehicles in our group that started, every one made it to the Gambia.

Since then I have enjoyed many short trips to various places in cars ranging from a ford Sierra bought off ebay for £103 to my current Landcruiser, bought for a couple of thousand that has taken me back to the Gambia, to Russia and to Belarus. Life means I can't do 'the big trip', at least, not yet. This vehicle, rather than having already done a trip had been used for towing a children's fairground tea cup ride!



I am sure in some peoples eyes this makes me less of a credible traveller (and source of useful information) than them because I haven't been and done what they have done, but to be honest I don't have much time or inclination for getting into dick measuring competitions with people. I know what I know, I know what I don't know and my experience is as valid as anyone elses. What I hope is my trusty banger, that is currently undergoing a resto that costs as much as I could have bought a new vehicle for (!!!) will, rather than the trip of a lifetime, give me a lifetime of trips.






One aspect of the resto though, while it should produce a more solid and capable vehicle, I will also be much more nervous about it, as losing a 2k vehicle is a lot easier to swallow than a 20k+ one!!

[Boycie]

Guess it's horses for courses. Most of us haven't bottomless wallets and have to work within a budget. I bought a Toyota 4runner five years ago for £1900 and spent 3 months doing 9k around southern Morocco with no problems. Am hoping to do the Magadan trip next year and am just replacing the rear springs, shocks, timing belt and replace brakes. It has been a very reliable truck which I drive sympathetically. I am sure things will go wrong, but would hate to spend valuable trip money on bling that I probably would never use. Will probably only use 4wd when visiting nature reserves. It is a bit like Russian roulette, but until you try it you never know.