Go Back   Horizons Unlimited - The HUBB > 4 wheels > 4WD Overland Tech

4WD Overland Tech GENERIC 4WD / 4 wheel TECH discussions and info that is valid for ALL brands. See brand specific forums.
Contact Overland Solutions for all your custom modifications and setup for overland travel.

Visit Matt Savage for VIAIR compressors, Air Lift Helper Springs, Tyre Levers, Chris Scott's Books & DVDs, KC Daylighters, Allisport Intercoolers, Overland Preparation and lots more!

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 9 Jul 2008
Registered Users
HUBB regular
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 36
What winch?

Hello,

I have converted an DAF ya4440 (ex dutch army 4X4) into a camper. I have had a good test drive in Morocco last winter and have come to the conclusion that it might be nice to have a winch.

I'm curious about your thoughts and experiences on this subject, especially on is it neccesary for a round trip Africa (west down - east up) and how big should it be? (because big winch = big money)

My truck weighs about 10.000kg fully loadedName:  20071228-Marokko 2007_20071228_0276.jpg
Views: 248
Size:  38.2 KB

regards,

Henk Jan
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10 Jul 2008
Moderator
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Ledbury, Herefordshire, UK
Posts: 326
As a rule of thumb a winch should have a capacity of four times the weight of the loaded vehicle so it will need to be BIG for your truck.

As for whether you need it, I guess it depends on whether you are going to be travelling in the rainey season and how patient you are.
__________________
Cheers,

Julian Voelcker
Overland Cruisers - Specialising in Land Cruiser preparation and servicing.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10 Jul 2008
Registered Users
HUBB regular
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 36
I know about the 4 times rule but to me it seems a bit much a 40.000kg winch.
I saw a truck a few years back that had a 6.8ton winch, that seemed like a nice one/size. I had the idea of using one hydraulic winch for the front as well as the back.
I dont know if this would be enough for winching my way out of a ditch at the side of the road? Maybe using a snatch block?


Henk Jan
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11 Jul 2008
Moderator
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Ledbury, Herefordshire, UK
Posts: 326
If using a snatch block all of the time you could get away with double the vehicle weight, however the problem is will you have enough line to reach an ancor point.

The 4 time rule is based on a vehicle completely bogged up to the chassis in gloop, something you might encounter in the Congo.
__________________
Cheers,

Julian Voelcker
Overland Cruisers - Specialising in Land Cruiser preparation and servicing.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11 Jul 2008
Moderator
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Ledbury, Herefordshire, UK
Posts: 326
If using a snatch block all of the time you could get away with double the vehicle weight, however the problem is will you have enough line to reach an ancor point.

Having said that, the bigger winches tend to have bigger spools on them for scope for more line on them.

The 4 time rule is based on a vehicle completely bogged up to the chassis in gloop, something you might encounter in the Congo.
__________________
Cheers,

Julian Voelcker
Overland Cruisers - Specialising in Land Cruiser preparation and servicing.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11 Jul 2008
Registered Users
HUBB regular
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 36
Thanks Julian,

I think I will forget about a winch for now, a 40ton winch is just to expensive and to heavy.

Henk Jan
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11 Jul 2008
Registered Users
HUBB regular
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 48
My opinion is that in this weight category you have to use common sense rather than rely on rule-of-thumb. A 40ton winch will weigh well over a ton itself; the 25t ones that army recovery vehicles use weigh over 2t. A snatch block capable of sustaining 40t of load will be nearly half a tone on its own! A 40t winch would be unlikely fit between the chassis rails and would be likely to require major vehicle modifications. This is obviously unfeasible for a 10t motorhome type vehicle and so a compromise needs to be made and the limitations accepted.

The only trucks in the 10t and above weight class I have seen that get anywhere near meeting the 4x rule, are those whose sole purpose it is to recover other vehicles, wreckers, spec-lifts and the like.

Fitting a lower rated winch need not be dangerous if used within its limits but one cannot expect it to haul the vehicle fully loaded out of a truly dire swamp-like situation

I am certainly no expert on these matters but one needs to be practical.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11 Jul 2008
Registered Users
HUBB regular
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 36
I agree nickdisjunkt, the only winches I have seen on trucks my size are in the range of 4-7ton winches but I am also no expert.
I know the german army uses 5 or 6 ton winches on their MAN-cat.

I do not intend to get myself in blubber up to the chassis, I don't have the intention to go seriously offroading through africa but eventually you might encounter a slippery road or something.

What I intend to say is: Do you need a winch to go overland trough Africa and not only the "highway" roads but also the "B" roads (if you understand what I mean). And if you do need a winch it what will be a resonable one?

Henk Jan

Last edited by metdaffieopreis; 11 Jul 2008 at 18:58. Reason: spelled a name wrong
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11 Jul 2008
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: christchurch uk
Posts: 249
do you need a winch

Maybe ask youself how many local trucks have winches? Friends of mine got stuck waited for the next truck to come, they pulled them out and so it went. everyone helping each other. locals get stuck too. you are never alone in these places and people are willing to help, a good tow rope or strap is cheaper and lighter than a winch! people fit expensive winches and never use them.

Graeme
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11 Jul 2008
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 244
Militaries usually fit winches with a capacity of 40-75% the weight of the vehicle. These are always hydraulic winches which are capable of long full load pulls without overheating. Forget about electric, even a 16500 lb (7.5 tonne) Warn. They will quickly overheat with a heavy vehicle.
I have a 15000 lb Superwinch on the rear of my U500 and a 20000 lb DP on the front.
Warn has come out with a hydraulic 20XL which is rated at 20000 lb and is relatively cheap, about US$2200. It weighs 306 lb in in the short drum version and carries 148' (~41m) of 9/16" (14mm) wire rope. the wide drum version carries about 75m. I think both versions are less than 30" (750mm) wide.
It's just not feasible to fit a winch rated at 4, 2 or even 1.5 times GVM to a heavy vehicle unless the truck is a dedicated wrecker and the winch is fitted on the bed behind the cab. With my crawler gears I can precisely match tire speed to winch speed so I figure the truck can do a good job of assisting the winch.
A good kinetic tow rope (KERR) is for the money more valuable than a winch. For a 10 tonne vehicle get a 40mm Marlow KERR or equivalent. For over 12 tonnes get a 48mm.

Charlie
__________________
Unimog U500 w/Unicat
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 12 Jul 2008
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 467
winch

Quote:
Originally Posted by graysworld View Post
Maybe ask youself how many local trucks have winches? Friends of mine got stuck waited for the next truck to come, they pulled them out and so it went. everyone helping each other. locals get stuck too. you are never alone in these places and people are willing to help, a good tow rope or strap is cheaper and lighter than a winch! people fit expensive winches and never use them.

Graeme
Spot on! We travelled along the African west coast during rainy season in an LC, never got stuck. Helped some locals to get unbogged. Did not see any local trucks with winches. Better spend the money on good mud tires!

Cheers,

Noel
exploreafrica.web-log.nl
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 13 Jul 2008
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Bribie Island Australia
Posts: 579
For a vehicle that size, I think I'd save my money and lash out instead on some waffles or aluminium PSP - you'd need at least twice the wheelbase for that vehicle.

If you are really desperate to spend some money how about diff locks? or some good quality air bags used by the truck recovery guys.

Winches breed an over confidence, "I can do that, I've got a winch". Stuck to the chassis rails in mud and waiting for the dry season to dig out your pride and joy is not fun. Self recovery winches cant pull 10 tonnes out, mainly because you can never find something to hook onto that will survive the pulling forces.

With small winches you have to bear in mind that the whole winch is rated for say 4000kgs - that means the chassis mounting bolts and cable as well. Start pulling 10000kgs with a couple of snatch blocks and you can start to have some very dangerous forces at play.

BTW I'm sure that I've seen a mid mounted PTO winch on a Dutch army truck somewhere, they are far better as you can pull yourself backwards and out of the trouble you've driven into, rather than keep going forwards and further into the shite.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 21 Jul 2008
Registered Users
HUBB regular
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 36
Thanks everyone for your input.

I think i will not mount a winch, mainly because of the last few posts, these made a lot of sense to me. Just use your mind and try not to get stuck.

thanks again everyone

Henk Jan
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 21 Jul 2008
silver G's Avatar
Gold Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: south Cumbria
Posts: 363
Have you looked at what the army do to recover these trucks - might be worth asking around.
Also if you went for the 3.2tonne tirfor with an appropriate snatch block from Rotzler (200mm dia as used with german army unimogs) you might stand a chance if there is a big enough tree to anchor to - but be very carefull!
Did a quick youtube search
YouTube - A brief look around REME Bordon (Part Two)
sure there's lots more worth watching


This is what you don't want
YouTube - Will we make it?
Take your time and keep control
__________________
Chris
-----------------
"Never have a stupid argument with an idiot - he gets a lot more practice than you"
there I go again
not too hard really

Last edited by silver G; 21 Jul 2008 at 09:41.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 Registered Users and/or Members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
winch-compressor mario travaini 4WD Overland Tech 6 13 Apr 2008 11:08
Need A Winch! slobo sub-Saharan Africa 9 15 Jul 2006 12:36
Tirfor Winch ctc 4WD Overland Tech 0 28 Nov 2005 18:51
which winch longroadtrip 4WD Overland Tech 9 23 Jun 2004 23:54
Which winch Gregory Sahara Travel Forum 11 9 Nov 2001 22:18

 
 


HU DVD Summer Special!

Now that summer is here, get On the Road! Take 30% off the Achievable Dream - On the Road! 2-DVD set until August 31 only. Get On the Road! Learn the tips to staying healthy, happy and secure on your motorcycle adventure!

Our veteran travellers share their tips (and great stories) for staying healthy, happy and secure on your motorcycle adventure.

"A fantastic, informative and inspirational DVD."

"It's brilliant - thank you very much!"

Check it out at the HU Store! Remember to use Coupon Code 'ONTHEROAD' on your order when you checkout.


Renedian Adventures


Renedian Adventures

What others say about HU...

"I just wanted to say thanks for doing this and sharing so much with the rest of us." Dave, USA

"Your website is a mecca of valuable information and the DVD series is informative, entertaining, and inspiring! The new look of the website is very impressive, updated and catchy. Thank you so very much!" Jennifer, Canada

"...Great site. Keep up the good work." Murray and Carmen, Australia

"We just finished a 7 month 22,000+ mile scouting trip from Alaska to the bottom of Chile and I can't tell you how many times we referred to your site for help. From how to adjust your valves, to where to stay in the back country of Peru. Horizons Unlimited was a key player in our success. Motorcycle enthusiasts from around the world are in debt to your services." Alaska Riders

contest pic

10th Annual HU Travellers Photo Contest is on now! This is an opportunity for YOU to show us your best photos and win prizes!

NEW! HU 2014 Adventure Travel T-shirts! are now available in several colors! Be the first kid on your block to have them! New lower prices on synths!

HU 2014 T-shirts now in!

Check out the new Gildan Performance cotton-feel t-shirt - 100% poly, feels like soft cotton!


What turns you on to motorcycle travel?


Global Rescue, WORLDwide evacuation services for EVERYONE

Global Rescue is the premier provider of medical, security and evacuation services worldwide and is the only company that will come to you, wherever you are, and evacuate you to your home hospital of choice. Additionally, Global Rescue places no restrictions on country of citizenship - all nationalities are eligible to sign-up!


New to Horizons Unlimited?

New to motorcycle travelling? New to the HU site? Confused? Too many options? It's really very simple - just 4 easy steps!

Horizons Unlimited was founded in 1997 by Grant and Susan Johnson following their journey around the world on a BMW R80 G/S motorcycle.

Susan and Grant Johnson Read more about Grant & Susan's story

Membership - help keep us going!

Horizons Unlimited is not a big multi-national company, just two people who love motorcycle travel and have grown what started as a hobby in 1997 into a full time job (usually 8-10 hours per day and 7 days a week) and a labour of love. To keep it going and a roof over our heads, we run events (22 this year!); we sell inspirational and informative DVDs; we have a few selected advertisers; and we make a small amount from memberships.

You don't have to be a Member to come to an HU meeting, access the website, the HUBB or to receive the e-zine. What you get for your membership contribution is our sincere gratitude, good karma and knowing that you're helping to keep the motorcycle travel dream alive. Contributing Members and Gold Members do get additional features on the HUBB. Here's a list of all the Member benefits on the HUBB.


Books & DVDs

amazon

All the best travel books and videos listed and often reviewed on HU's famous Books page. Check it out and get great travel books from all over the world.


Motorcycle Express for shipping and insurance!

Motorcycle Express

MC Air Shipping, (uncrated) USA / Canada / Europe and other areas. Be sure to say "Horizons Unlimited" to get your $25 discount on Shipping!
Insurance - see: For foreigners traveling in US and Canada and for Americans and Canadians traveling in other countries, then mail it to MC Express and get your HU $15 discount!




All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:17.