How to warm Diesel in Winter (Siberia)?

[Panmundo-Tobias]

Hello overlanders,

I am due to drive through Siberia in February-March 2008 with my 1996 Land-Cruiser 4.2 Turbo-Diesel.

Since it will be very cold, I was wondering what to do in order to keep the Diesel running.

Does anyone have some experiences or hints?

I would really appreciate!
Thx a lot,
Tobias

-----------------------------
In 2 years around the world by 4x4
PanMundo.Com

[Gipper]

Tobias,
You should find some answers on this thread :

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...diesel+heating


A Webasto/Eiberspacher with the warm coolant pipes routed around your fuel system is the way to go as Luke suggested

- or an alternative is a 110/240 Volt block/circulating coolant heater and a small petrol generator - though lugging a gene around is a pain.


I Have a question for the Guys with the Webato/Eiber set ups - are they on a thermostat or can you get them to run 100% duty ?- which are the best models to use - experiences ?

later
Grif

[Martynbiker]

saw a TV programme, where Russian truckers lit small fires under their truck Diesel tanks to liquefy the solidified Fuel...

Cant you pick a warmer country? Spain is nice..........

Oh, the Eberspacher is probably by far the better option if your tank is a PLASTIC one too........

[onlyMark]

I've read as well the indicated thread but there's still one or two points I think are worthy of mention. I apologise if it's a case of grandmother and suction of eggs, but anyway -
as diesel gets colder it passes through a "cloud point" to a "waxing point". This can be just a degree or two below freezing depending on the quality of the fuel.
It's the waxing point that you need to be careful of.
But first -

Battery.
Make sure it's in good condition and all connections are clean and tight. The colder it is the worse it is.
I've had to resort to taking it to bed with me to keep it warm. I've also had to warm it up by putting it on top of a pan of boiling water on my stove. I've put it to sleep overnight with a blanket, a hot water bottle and my teddy bear. I've seen people pouring boiling water over it to warm it up, but I'm not sure that's a good thing.
When your battery seems dead and unresponsive, wait and warm it up (funnily enough it seems to work with my wife as well)

Fuel lines - maybe insulate them, definitely try and run them in places out of the wind and/or near the engine. Make sure there is no water in the filter or lines (obviously it will freeze and block it all up). If you're running in very cold weather and the engine stops, you try and bleed it but no fuel comes through, often the filters clog up first with the wax. I've used a blow torch to warm them up (only metal cased filters). Then try and bleed it again. I've also changed the filter for a new one at the side of the road, kept the old one until it thawed out, rinsed it out with clean fuel, and then re-used it.

Oil - make sure you are using the right grade of oil, especially with a turbo motor. Not good when the oil is too thick on start up and the turbo doesn't get it's fair share.

Park at night out of the wind or at least arse on to it.

Starting - mentioned before was an aerosol to help recalcitrant engines (I know it as "Easy Start"). It does help but anecdotal evidence suggests if you use it a lot then the engine doesn't seem to want to start at any other time without it. Don't know if there is some technical reason for it or even if it is true, I just know I've had diesels that wont get out of bed without it.

Better idea for starting on cold mornings - oily rag soaked in diesel, held in your barbecue tongs, set alight and put close to the air inlet so that the hot gasses are sucked in when you turn the engine over.
Maybe understand or practice the idea of turning the engine over using a rope and jacked up rear wheel for when your battery is really dead.

You can put a percentage of petrol in your diesel to lower the waxing point. It is debatable as to what percentage is acceptable and it is better if you don't use it at all. What I do know is that for a short period of time (85 km's) I used a mix of 25% to get me out of the sh*t. Definately not recommended.

[marker]

Originally Posted by onlyMark

You can put a percentage of petrol in your diesel to lower the waxing point. It is debatable as to what percentage is acceptable and it is better if you don't use it at all. What I do know is that for a short period of time (85 km's) I used a mix of 25% to get me out of the sh*t. Definately not recommended.

~

I put a 4 % of petrol in the dieseltank in colder regions (South America though...) and had no waxing even at -25C. Have been told that this mixture also cleans up the injector system. Dont know if it is true but at over 300.000 km the engine of my Landcruiser (PZJ75) is still untouched and running as new.

[Danquart]

G·day all,
mixing a certain % of petrol with the diesel can·t be bad; a lot of taxi drivers do it precisely to keep injectors clean as mentioned!
A bit like vodca for humans!
Cheers .... Dan

[Dodger]

25 % petrol is the absolute maximum amount, any more and you will bugger up the injector pump .Kerosene is better and a proper additive is best .
In Canada we have a product called "Meltdown" that will free up gelled fuel lines and filters ,find an equivalent and carry it with you .
However you will find that most cold countries will actually sell you "winter diesel" unlike Britain ,which comes to a screeching halt whenever a flake of snow falls,some countries are organised for winter .
Carry a heavy tarpaulin [not plastic] and drape it over the front of your vehicle ,wrap the radiator and front of the engine to stop the wind blast , if you have winter diesel in the tank you should then be fine for -45c .If you don't have engine block heaters to plug in to a power supply , then at very low temps let the engine idle all night . If it's an automatic gearbox , allow the vehicle to idle in N for a few minutes to warm up the tranny before you move off .
Engines can be thawed out using a length of stove pipe placed under the engine bay and a propane torch , very effective but messy if you overdo it .

[Walkabout]

The posts here tie-in well with the answers of two years ago:-

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...climates-20137

[m37charlie]

You will find that in most cold places (like Alaska where I live, probably Siberia as well) diesel fuel is blended with kerosene, Jet A or #1 fuel oil to bring the cloud point below anticipated low temperatures.
As long as your engine is running, the fuel return line to your tank will warm the contents of the tank. The real problem is starting.
Diesels are increasingly hard to start below -15 C. even with the usual starting aids like glow plugs or intake heaters, even block heaters. Nights falling below -20 C. would make me leave the engine running all night. Below -35 C. you probably won't start a diesel that has been outdoors all night no matter what you do unless you put a big space heater under the motor for an hour or two.
Best advice in very cold temps: leave the motor running, use Jet A if available (NOT Jet B, it's close to petrol), add a bit of motor oil if >50% Jet A or kerosene. Also, drive very gingerly when starting out for 15-20 minutes till gearboxes and diffs have warmed up. Alloy steels become brittle at very low temps.

Charlie

[oldbmw]

Originally Posted by m37charlie

You will find that in most cold places (like Alaska where I live, probably Siberia as well) diesel fuel is blended with kerosene, Jet A or #1 fuel oil to bring the cloud point below anticipated low temperatures.
As long as your engine is running, the fuel return line to your tank will warm the contents of the tank. The real problem is starting.
Diesels are increasingly hard to start below -15 C. even with the usual starting aids like glow plugs or intake heaters, even block heaters. Nights falling below -20 C. would make me leave the engine running all night. Below -35 C. you probably won't start a diesel that has been outdoors all night no matter what you do unless you put a big space heater under the motor for an hour or two.
Best advice in very cold temps: leave the motor running, use Jet A if available (NOT Jet B, it's close to petrol), add a bit of motor oil if >50% Jet A or kerosene. Also, drive very gingerly when starting out for 15-20 minutes till gearboxes and diffs have warmed up. Alloy steels become brittle at very low temps.

Charlie

This is good advice... Also note that several companies make veggie oil conversion kits. One of the functions of these kits is to pre-heat the fuel oil. You may well find they have some bits that would help alleviate cold weather use. I have to say when I have overnighted in very cold conditions I run the engine and 'try' to steal heat from the engine to heat the cabin. A diesel idling uses very little fuel, so does not produce much heat. you may find running the return line alongside the feed then insulating both will help. I do this here on our water pipes in teh house. perhaps an immersion heater such as is used for fish in the fuel tanks? It helps if you have an oil pressure gauge, to set the idle at a sufficient speed to maintain good oil pressure. This may be fast enough to allow you to steal some electricity.

[onlyMark]

I agree that it is commonly done to add a bit of petrol to lower the waxing point and I've often done it myself.
But when I said - "it is better if you don't use it at all" I believe that to be true, even before I read http://www.theaa.com/public_affairs/...ng_feb2007.pdf where the relevant part says, "... but with modern diesels that use extremely high injection pressures the viscosity of the fuel is critical. Any petrol present can cause scarring of the pump elements, and the seals can be damaged by compounds found in petrol."
Presumably if you've got an older diesel engine then it's ok (?)

[oldbmw]

better to use Kerosene or paraffin

[Roman]

Since it will be very cold, I was wondering what to do in order to keep the Diesel running

Tobias

Read the travelogues linked in the threads mentioned here. You will learn what Russian drivers do to keep going. Here is the basic advice - turn off the engine only if you must and park the car only in enclosed spaces.

[Dodger]

Most of the loggers around here add 2 stroke oil to winter diesel , it has great lubricating properties and also any excess will burn away without leaving heavy deposits .
Avoid using ether if you can but if you absolutely have to use it , use it sparingly .An excess will blow head gaskets and warp cylinder heads , I've seen it happen [ no it wasn't me !] and it is quite spectacular .

Use synthetic oil in the engine as well , 0/30 or equivalent ,check the specs of the oil for it's pour point ,aim for about -50C.

[frnas]

Many good advicec here. An webasto/ebersprächer is essential. A set off good and large batteries is a must. Maybee seting up a 3rd battery for the webasto/eber. so you dont drain the starter batteries. Toyota turbo diesels with direct injection is wery easy to start, never had a problem with mine well bellow the -30 C.Even when standing in this temperatur for several days. No need to let the engine idle through the night at -20 C, or even at -35 C.

I would think the diesel in russia have the additives added for kepping it liquid.

Look after your batteries and electric system and you should be ok i think.

Do your LC have the "blancket" in front of the radiator? Have this pulled down.

Frode