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  #1  
Old 1 Dec 2003
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tdi 200 or 300 better for dz?

Cant seem to find this spelt out on the web but I'm told is 200s are better, even if they will be older.
Who would car to spell out or add to the pros and cons below (not getting too much into the well known the t-belt business) - and are they significant enough to actively seek out a good 200 over a 3?

What I'm told so far is:

"200, simple, fast, powerfull, very adjustable with big intercoolers, ecconomical, strong...

300, 'refined' but lots of silly problems with alternators, t belts, heads cracking, water pumps - use a little more fuel, faster though, but not by much"

True or false?

thanks

Ch
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  #2  
Old 3 Dec 2003
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Think false IMHO. 300TDIs are more powerful, reliable, a better engine. The only liability I am aware of with them is the timing belt issue on some of them. The main reason you see lots of 200TDI engines on serious tricked up offroaders is primarily because they are cheaper. Providing that money isn't a limiting factor, would defintely advise buying a 300TDI over a 200TDI.
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  #3  
Old 3 Dec 2003
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Well that's put a spanner in the works. I want a clean cut answer!

Another other HOs?

Ch
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  #4  
Old 3 Dec 2003
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Give Richard Turner a ring on this as well, he can give an expert opinion on the subject.

Col
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  #5  
Old 3 Dec 2003
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i used to have a 200Tdi, and now run a (hand built by me) 300Tdi 90, also used to have a company car 300Tdi 110.

there isn't much difference between them really, driving wise. the 300 revs a little more and a little "smoother" (as smooth as a 4 cyl diesel gets anyway!)
"tickover pulling away" torque seems ever so slightly less on the 300 compared to a 200. its a bit like comparing the old 2.5TD to the 200 Tdi, the old 2.5TD had a LOT of torque right from tickover.

horsepower between the 200 and 300 is the same. something like 111.7bhp. toque is slightly higher on the 300, but not much.

i've had no problems with the serpentine belt on my 300. it's certainly easier servicing it as you don't have to fart about tensioning it, although the only down side to it, compared to the 300, is that the PAS pump on the 300Tdi is run off of the one serpentine belt, where the 200 had a separate belt for the PAS. now, should your PAS pump ever fail then you could just remove the belt on the 200 and carry on, whereas on the 300 you'd be left stranded. saying that, this has only happened to me once years ago. and i was in town near home so i just kept stopping until the engine cooled down then drove a little further.

i'd go for a 300 everytime. i currently also have a Td5 110 SW.... i'd never take that thing anywhere remotely unaccessable by an RAC lorry!
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  #6  
Old 3 Dec 2003
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Both mine are 200Tdi.

Thought that might help!

Sam.
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  #7  
Old 4 Dec 2003
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IMO, the 300TDi is a slightly better choice. It got a bad reputation because of the timing belt thing, and it definitely doesn´t like being overheated. (But then, neither does the 200TDi).

If the fluids are checked regularly, and belts are good, they are both excellent engines, but I´d rather go for the later one.

My 2p worth, having had vehicles with both engines. (The astute reader will know that I mean separate vehicles, not Land Rovers with multiple engines).

Regards,

Michael...
www.expeditionoverland.com
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  #8  
Old 4 Dec 2003
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>.... i currently also have a Td5 110 SW.... i'd never take that thing anywhere remotely unaccessable by an RAC lorry!

Why do you say that DJ, from bitter experience - or the thought of a bitter experience?

Ch
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  #9  
Old 4 Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally posted by diesel jim:

i've had no problems with the serpentine belt on my 300. it's certainly easier servicing it as you don't have to fart about tensioning it, although the only down side to it, compared to the 300, is that the PAS pump on the 300Tdi is run off of the one serpentine belt, where the 200 had a separate belt for the PAS. now, should your PAS pump ever fail then you could just remove the belt on the 200 and carry on, whereas on the 300 you'd be left stranded.

Note that on 200tdi Disco's the PAS pump is driven with the same belt as the Water pump, and the Alternator is driven from a second pully on the PAS pump.

In opinion an design error of the disco engineers.
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Old 4 Dec 2003
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<>.... i currently also have a Td5 110 SW.... i'd never take that thing anywhere remotely unaccessable by an RAC lorry!
Why do you say that DJ, from bitter experience - or the thought of a bitter experience?

Ch >

the thing broke down the first day i got it (i had it for 2 hours, and it only had 34miles on the clock!)

since then i've had numerous problems with it, ranging from overheating,siezed engine,PAS box,main gearbox (ok, not Td5 specific), numerous water leaks etc.

and i really think that this engine is underpowered (especially for my 110 SW which is <fairly> heavy). my 300 used to go much better, and the Td5 is very uneconomical too, compared to the 300.
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Old 5 Dec 2003
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Holy moly, I've read of similar stories but 2 hours must be a record - I dont know how you LR guys can stand the tension!

I thought Td5 build was a new leaf.

Ch

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  #12  
Old 5 Dec 2003
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Hi DJ,

I'm sorry to hear that you really got a lemon.
I agree with the lack of power (compaired to what it should be in a modern car of its size).
But when it comes to reliability, I disagree somewhat re. the TD5. We drove 62000 km though africa without a single engine problem, and now, several 1000 kms later, still no problems. I know a lot of TD5 owners here in Norway who have leaking door seals when it rains, ACs that don't really make it much cooler etc. but no engine problems.
We also met quite a lot of TD5 local defender and discos owners in east/southern africa (plus one in Sudan!), where the natural conversation of TD5 reliability came up, with apperently no engine problems. Thats not to say there weren't other problems like broken half-shafts etc. But then on the otherhand we had to tow a stranded "newish" LC78 out from the middle of Abedare national park in Kenya because the rear half-shafts were buggered. The guide and his tourist were quite happy to see us come by! Although they took of with barely a thanks, as if we might ask for money from them...
Mecanical problems like these seem to be just as much a driver induced thing, as a car brand thing.
I have to admit though that your problems do sound really extreme, not to mention irritating. What has LR said about the faults?

Erik D.

www.dunia.no


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  #13  
Old 5 Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally posted by Erik D.:
Hi DJ,

I have to admit though that your problems do sound really extreme, not to mention irritating. What has LR said about the faults?

Erik D.




oh, they've done their usual trick of wriggling their way out of it.
the engine siezure was due to my dealership not tightening up the sump plug properly... it had gone in for a service and heated rear window fixing, when i went back a week later to tell them that the HRW was STILL not working, i also mentioned that the sump plug was dripping oil, 2 days later it fell out!

they did give me an exra one years warranty on the vehicle as a "piece of mind" gesture. i think i've just definately got a friday afternoon special. it's the 3rd brand new defender i've had, and only been the worst, the other two were fine (ish...)

the 90 that i built myself have been immpecable!!!


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  #14  
Old 6 Dec 2003
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I don`t think this is really a thing particular to LR or the TD5, it is just an example of it happening to a TD5 LR.

If you take any major vehicle manufacturer, BMW, Ford, VW, Audi etc, they all turn out vehicles that have these niggling problems straight from the factory, look at any car mag and have a look at the reliability tables and some of the big names all have problems, Merc`s included, ANY vehicle with electronic fuel injection can leave you stranded anywhere, not just LRs, and most of these problems that happen early on are just items that slipped through the compainies quality control(addmitadly LR sometime feature worse than some), but I think anyone who drove from the showroom to the desert would have to have rock in their head, and you would at least have to do enough milage to shake the vehicle down properly and run it in, after this period most of these factory problems will come to light and should be sorted out in the first or second factory service, dealers are dealers every where, you get good and bad.

I really think its a mind set, if your happy to take a new electronic vehicle into the desert irrelevent of the make fine, and if your worried about this aspect don`t, simple as that.

I have spoken to one of the major LR/camper hire companies in Australia runs a fleet of TD5 Disco`s and 110s, and he swears by em, and turns them over every 100 000KMs, and he has had no major electronic related hang ups, just the usual niggling things that LRs are famous for. I think people in Australia are more comfortable with TD5s in remote places than, people in the UK, and I think a lot of that come down to the fact that most offroad LR owners here are into serious mud plugging, and are always concious of water related problems, and take that mind set with them, where in Australia there are a lot of people who live in remote places and they mostly all drive petrol and diesel ECU cotrolled vehicles and have next to no problems with then, so ar`nt quite as hung up on these electronic unknowns.

I am not trying to justify LR, just trying to break the mind set that all these things only happen to LR, they also happen to other manufacturers as well, its just everyone expects it of a LR.

Col Campbell
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  #15  
Old 6 Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally posted by Col Campbell:
but I think anyone who drove from the showroom to the desert would have to have rock in their head, and you would at least have to do enough milage to shake the vehicle down properly and run it in, after this period most of these factory problems will come to light and should be sorted out in the first or second factory service, dealers are dealers every where, you get good and bad.
I definatly agree with the testing before leaving home. We drove our Defender about 15000 km before going to africa. 5000 km of them were up to the North Cape of Norway and back fully loaded, just to test out the car.
A workshop which didn't tighten the sump plug so it fell out doesn't have much to do with TD5 reliability. This could have happened with a Rolls-Royce for that sake! Although I doubt the mechanics at RR are that unprofessional!

Col, could you tell us why your ozi friend changes the cars at 100,000? Are there any specific things that pop up at that time?

Erik D.

www.dunia.no


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