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  #1  
Old 27 Jan 2005
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Reccovery technniques for BIG trucks ?

HI !!!

Well , at last !!! I have just bought today a medium size (Max Weight 5Ton) overlanding Truck.It is like a 150% scale of the British LandRover FC101 , but much much bigger .(ITs call a Santana 2000 btw).

Question is .. how is one supposed to unstuck this monster in sand ? . I can't lift it with a hi-lift ) -for a start , bumpers are already at 1 m height! , sand plates are uselss (won't fit),

What -for example - I am supposed to do if I ever get stuck in deep mud? - Pushing it is obviously out of the equation .

Is it any kind of bigger (??) Hi-lift ? for trucks ? Or should I rely solely in bottleJacks ?

What do these people with 10 Tonners do in these situation ?

Cheers
Javier.
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  #2  
Old 27 Jan 2005
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welcome to digging-out land...!
-a shovel and sandmats will do (but a big bottle jack with a strong metal plate as a base must be in the equipment as well)
remember never try the first time! when you think you're finish digging then take a break and digg again, trying at first with heavy trucks only does things worst.
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  #3  
Old 28 Jan 2005
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Javier, I noticed you posted this twice - probably because it didn't appear to be there after the first time. Sometimes your isp - or your browser - get over-eager and cache the former page, and don't give you the new page. You need to force it - hold down the shift key, and click the refresh/reload button. That should get you the new version.

If you do end up with two, you can always delete the duplicate - there's a delete link under every topic. You can delete your own anytime. Note that if you delete the topic, any replies to it go too!

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  #4  
Old 28 Jan 2005
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I'm no expert here but I've seen these big trucks in the Dakar, when they passed through Egypt, getting themselves unstuck with thick and long sand mats, monstrous jacks and huge snatch straps in case another truck was around. Albeit it took much much longer and much more effort than getting a car unstuck.

One neat trick I saw on TV was a truck with 4 fixed long travel hydraulic (maybe air operated) jacks each right next to a wheel. With the flick of the switch from inside the cab the jack would decent and lift the truck easily in the air for you to slide the sand mat under. I imagine that would be expensive and not so easy to fit but it was very cool.

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  #5  
Old 28 Jan 2005
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As an ex military man I spent a lot of time getting vehicles un stuck. The first thing I suggest in a whinch either mounted on the vehilcle electrical or a large manual rachet type. I also would suggest a ground anchor. You can by them or even us a boat type PQR anchor or two. These will enable you to get holdfasts on most ground in cluding sand.

If you can find suitable anchors use a large log and bury it in a T shapped trench with the rope or sling at its mid point and running out of the ground down the long leg of the T.

you could in extremis use picket hold fasts as anchors but they take a long time to build.

I Found this article that looks a very good and explains the use of ground anchors for vehicle recovery. http://www.pajero4x4.ru/book/rec.pdf

Charlie

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  #6  
Old 28 Jan 2005
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IMHO for a vehicle that size ground anchors attached to a ratchet winch will not work in sand dunes. You would need a hydraulic winch to have chance, as the ground anchor will undoubtedly be drawn toward you as you winch.

IMHO a winch and ground anchor would get you out of mud provided you can find somewhere out of the mud to stick your ground anchor in.

Also perhaps an ovbvious point but its mostly easier to recover yourself backward and try again rather than trying to pull your way through forward.

FYI I have a groundanchor made by Pullpal as used by US forces (same principle as a plough or the QPR anchor mentioned in the previous post) to which I attach a Tirfor TU28 - manual winch with 30 metres of steel cable.

It's excellent set-up apart from in deep sand though it has to be said that the Tirfor is FXXcking hard work (best to get two people on the handle at once) and it weighs some!

The British army have a good ground anchor if you intend using it in Europe. It is basically a piece of angle iron drilled to accept metal stakes that you smack into the ground with a sledge hammer.

Good luck - at the end of the day its one of the draw backs of a truck - everything is suddenly too big to man handle!
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  #7  
Old 30 Jan 2005
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Hi there,
Forget the winch in sand, they are a last resort when everything else fails - also expensive, especially for a larger vehicle, you will not get a good purchase with any ground anchor in sand - except a vehicle of the same or greater weight.

First thing is to let some air out of your tyres if you are not already at Dune pressures - What size and tyre are you using ? and what engine /gearing do you have ?

Correct pressures will get you through most sand together with a good power to weight ratio, tyre size, momentum and route selection and planning.

If you do get stuck..... like Mario says Dig! and Dig some more...
Then Sand Ladders - you say they wont fit ? where are you trying to put them ?

You should not need to jack the vehicle up, but there is always the chance, rack jacks (Hi Lift) are not much good in this situation as you lift the chassis - the suspension travel keeps the wheel on the deck - again like Mario says use a good rated bottle jack and a jack pad under the axle to lift tyres up if you need to.
Though the combination of dropping pressure, digging and sand ladders should normally work - and its the quickest.

Cheers
Grif

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  #8  
Old 30 Jan 2005
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Hi there,
Grif is right, I know he's also been driving 12 tons truck for years. I've got bogged many many times with heavy trucks and it hasn't been one time that I couldn't get away with the help of a shovel and sand mats, even in black cotton mud or in salt pans, and I'm talking about normal old Mercedes 4x2 1617.
cheers
/mario
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  #9  
Old 7 Feb 2005
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HI

Please correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the Santana 2000, Santana's version of the LR 101?? The Santana 1300 was based on the LR 2a/2b Forward Control and the 2000 was based on the 101. The Wheel base and axle width are the same as far as I can remember as the 101. Santana use there own 6 cylinder engine, their LT85 gearbox and increased the payload to 2 tonnes on civilian model. Body work was altered to pass regulations, but underneather they are basically the same truck.

I have mentioned this as there is plenty of info out there on 101's in desert conditions.

Cheers Mick
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  #10  
Old 8 Feb 2005
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nop. (I am the previous poster, somehow I forgot my passport and had to re-signin).

The 1300 model was a mostly clone of the Series II ForwardControl , but the
Santana2000 was the first model designed from Scratch in Santana. (as with the mostly unknown Santana's LandRover Series IV (they DID exist!!) .

It was designed some 12 years later than FC101 , and is a wholy different vehicle (I know that sometimes is *wrongly* described as "Santanas' version of the FC101" ).

For a start , It weights 3000-3500 kilos empty , and with a payload of 2000-3000 kilos (i.e. Its allowed to have a total mass of around 6.5 Tons). Mine , in particular is the heavy "RadioBox" which weighs 3500 kilos unladen with a max load rating of 2200 (around 6 ton).dont try that in a FC101 !.

Drivetrain is different to what the FC101 has.Its got the "Santana" box and diesel NA 6 cyl (3500-4000cc) with around 95 HP.
Gearbox has electrically actuated selectors for 1st/reverse.IT;s. Has a lowrange/hirange transfer , and selectable 4WD. It has NOT central diff ,however.

as you said ,ITs got a 2 Ton (2.5-3 with twin wheels) payload rating ,and the chassis is of the straight (cold rolled) steel rail (as in big trucks) (unlike the FC101 which got a standard pressed "car-like" chassis rails with shape , etc.

Both braking and steering are assisted via compressed air , with al pneumatic fittins/tanks , pumps , etc.. ,

Dimensionally is much much bigger ,althought they share their "over-rugged look" ,Definitely wider , higher , and the wheel base of mine is around 3300mm (dont think is in inches at all) vs 100 inches (2560 mm) in FC101.

The cab 's got all the usual refinements ,adjustbable seats , radio , gloveboxes , soundpadding , heating , (some a/C , not mine) .radio , defrosters ,etc.

In resume , ITs a different machine , which -probbably- don't share a single part. Fully laden is 5.5Tons vs 2.9 , and is a good 1.5 metres longer , 30cm wider , etc...They seem similar 'cos of the "rugged" look , but Its much wider and in general bigger.


some piccs

www.drpdynamics.com/santana2k/front34.jpg
www.drpdynamics.com/santana2k/cabdetail.jpg
www.drpdynamics.com/santana2k/side.jpg
www.drpdynamics.com/santana2k/cab2.jpg

and all this ammount truck for just 2000 Euros , reg'd test'd and tax'd !!!

Javier
wider and in general bigger.
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  #11  
Old 8 Feb 2005
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Nice looking truck Javier, shame about the wasted space between the cab and the rear body.
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  #12  
Old 8 Feb 2005
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Hi Javier

Does look like a nice truck. Thanks for correcting me and that proves you cannot beleive everything you read in LR magazines and books.

I am on with converting a LR 2a FC into an overlander at present and hope to have it on the road later in the year.

Cheers Mick
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  #13  
Old 8 Feb 2005
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Yep, nice looking Truck,
Are the tyres Bar Grips 9.00x16 ? If so make sure you dont use them in sand or mud !!! they are terrible !!!go for some XZLs or XS.
Cheers
Grif

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  #14  
Old 11 Feb 2005
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You can get airbag jacks that will lift a truck. Don't know how much but some will lift up to an artic or more, as used by the fireservice. That has to be the easiest way to lift a truck to get sand ladders underneith. Getting one to lift 5 tonnes shouldn't be too difficult, but I don't think you'll get it from halfords. Truck sounds great, I'm converting a 101 ambie and trying to keep within the 3600kg max is really difficult.

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  #15  
Old 11 Feb 2005
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quick ps this looks rather like the llama project, landrovers proposed replacement for the 101 that never materialised, I would presume the space behind the cab is for spare wheel stowage.
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