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  #1  
Old 3 Feb 2011
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Overland trucks - Euro regs

Just heard this from a guy in NL - don't know the details but could be encouraging.

Just got my [MB] 1719AK tested and APK (MOT) passed yesterday.
Unbelievable - due to new European regulations - my camper truck
is now registered as a passenger car with 13.700 Kg weight.
Before it was an commercial truck with camper unit registration.

Now all sorts of truck laws (eurovignet, tacho) are not applicable - at least not in Europe. Though speeds may not exceed above 80 Km/hr since it's more than 3500 Kg.


Ch
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Old 3 Feb 2011
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The london mayor at present, is set on the new LEZ(Low emissions zone) being extended to vehicles upto 3.5 tonne and I believe 4x4's in January 2012 in the london area, can you imagine how many people that will affect?
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Old 4 Feb 2011
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Is ken Livingston still the Lord Mayor?
How come he's not in the Tower as a permanent resident?

Charlie
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Old 4 Feb 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m37charlie View Post
Is ken Livingston still the Lord Mayor?
How come he's not in the Tower as a permanent resident?

Charlie
No, the other lot got in. A bloke called Boris Johnson, likes to go on quiz shows and play the upper class twit. He isn't as daft as he sometimes looks.

Back on subject: Anyone going the route of registering a former LGV/PSV/Tank as a car should know it's a bit of a black hole legislation wise. The "loop hole" is there so that fairgrounds and other people we non-politically correct souls will call gypseys, plus the odd vintage Rolls Royce owner didn't suddenly all have to take the HGV test and bring the country to a halt. The MOT/inspection and tachograph is where it ends. If you tow a trailer you still need a C&E license, you would still be safer to keep a log of your driving hours, the insurance needs to be for a vehicle over 3500 Kg, emissions zones etc. still apply. Think truck still and you can use this as it was meant to be used and be fine. Push the boundaries (eg. sell a 4x4 with a fifth wheel conversion and all up weight of 8000 Kg) and you'll get hassle (it didn't help that the fifth wheel caravan guy hadn't checked C&U either, the charge sheet was still going to be as long as an MP's expenses sheet).

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Old 4 Feb 2011
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Yes, Its Boris Johnson or 'BO-JO', he is as mad as a box of frogs, he did delay the date once before, but rain clouds are looming for Jan2012, can you just imagine how many people it will affect?
London will become a 'no go' zone, but then again parts of it already are.
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Last edited by palace15; 13 Feb 2014 at 13:22.
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Old 4 Feb 2011
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Give Boris his due - he allowed a long term trial for motos to use bus lanes on roads within his jurisdiction.

Back to topic-

I don't know how relevant this is to todays UK legislation but years ago car racing teams often used old coaches/buses as mobile workshops and to carry their race cars - often cutting off most of the bodywork making them effectively open, flat-bed transporters.
This was fine until one day a super-keen Mr Plod had a blitz on them at a race circuit and prosecuted many drivers for not having a Public Service Vehicle (bus drivers) driving license.
The point being that despite the changed use, the vehicle was originally a bus. Once a bus always a bus and a bus drivers licenses was still required to drive it!

Would such campers, as trucks, have previously required HGV licenses?
If so......?
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Old 4 Feb 2011
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Another black hole. Up to a certain time (1999 rings a bell), a HGV driver with over 12 months experience after passing the class 2/C test could drive a bus so long as there were no paying passengers. This allowed a truck mechanic to deliver a repaired bus (and do the works outing). After a time (my truck ticket is 2002) this was no longer the case and a Dennis delivery driver was pulled and done for using an HGV C license. The guideline then was that (dealing with prototype vehicles in my case), if it had more than 7 seats fitted it was a bus and you needed a bus license. We simply had the customers take the seats out. I'm still not convinced this was 100% legal and Dennis had all their test and delivery drivers trained on busses. If seven is an official number campers and workshops should pass a police check (tell 'em it is anyway!).

The solution is to re-register it as a car as above or a truck. Trouble is, change it to a truck and the brakes need to meet the current standard. Blokes trying to resurect Italian Job style Leyland Leopards as race car transporters used to make my life hell, there is no type approved ABS system and this isn't something you can just fit and forget. If you must have a chinese 6, go take your bus test!

Truck licenses are simple. Your car license depending on age says class B is either 7500 Kg or 3500 Kg. This is what you can drive. Next you add class C to go to 32 tonnes. You can add a 250 KG trailer to each. Add a bigger trailer and it's an artic, C&E. An 18 year old driving a Transit with a quad bike on a trailer behind might need a C&E, equivalent of the old class 1. Take care, the shape of the vehicle counts for little.

Andy
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Old 4 Feb 2011
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Hi

HGV is now Class C, and applies to everything over 3.5 tons other than a PSV, tracked, tractor, articulated etc. Class C1 is up to 7.5 tons and not a bus. You don't need a tacho unless you are being paid to drive.

Boris seems intent on getting everything altered in London to lower emissions, hearses and fire engines included. I can't believe thats really worth it for the limited miles and huge costs involved to swap vehicles like these for new ones

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Old 4 Feb 2011
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I think there is some confusion between private use and commercial use. if it's for private use you don't need an HGV licence is my understanding providing you have the right type of car licence.
the reference to speed limiters above only appllies to vehicles younger than a certain age (1987 for HGVs I think, more recent for over 3.5tons)
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Old 5 Feb 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moggy 1968 View Post
I think there is some confusion between private use and commercial use. if it's for private use you don't need an HGV licence is my understanding providing you have the right type of car licence.
the reference to speed limiters above only appllies to vehicles younger than a certain age (1987 for HGVs I think, more recent for over 3.5tons)
No confusion!

A Class C1 licence is up to 7.5 tons.

A Class C licence is anything un-articulated with less than 8 seats over 3.5 tons.

The vehicles you can drive or ride and minimum ages : Directgov - Motoring

So it could be a big stretched Hummer, a campervan, horsebox etc, over 7.5 tons you need a Class C.

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Old 5 Feb 2011
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And plod is getting smart. They hang about outside events like camper and horse shows looking for 3500/7500 kg+ vehicles and trailers over the 250 Kg mark. They also did a roaring trade with the stretched limo companies (it's a bus, so they could throw in a lot of C&U, inspection stuff from VOSA as well). OT, I used to do a lot with these US imports. Electrically braked caravan trailers, cut-and-shut limo conversions, 5-th wheels nailed into the back of flatbed Transits etc. they can all really rain on your parade.

Now, if you want to buy an Ex-MOD Self propelled gun, all you need is insurance!

Andy
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Old 5 Feb 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Threewheelbonnie View Post


And plod is getting smart.
Not just them.
The toll gates on the Dartford, Thames Bridge/Tunnel stopped my pal's LWB Landy Defender and counted the upholstered seat positions and would not accept it as a car as it had more than 7 seats.
So a lane of busy traffic was held up for maybe 3 or 4 minutes, all for an extra 50pence!
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Old 5 Feb 2011
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Vehicles in the UK above 3.5 tonnes are normally taxed as private HGV for camper / overland use (advantage - cheaper tax than plg)

If its a camper then its a class 4 mot in the uk - note it must be motor caravan on the V5

If its not a camper then its a full ministry test for the truck as an hgv

Driving licence limits do apply so if you passed the test after '97 then you are restricted to 3.5 tonnes unless further tests are taken , pre '98 its 7.5 tonnes

If its over 7.5 tonnes then tacho rules / drivers hours apply in the uk

Seems to be tacho exempt between 3.5-7.5 tonnes according to the tacho exemption form

So the rules will apply in the UK if not in NL

and remember there are still local country rules for heavier vehicles like austrias charges for using the motorways
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Old 5 Feb 2011
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I can tell that when I get my Unimog camper to Europe, in fall 2012, from Australia via SE Asia, China, Mongolia and Russia, things are going to be interesting
I do have a commercial driving licence allowing me to drive a rigid vehicle, any weight. From Alaska.

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Old 5 Feb 2011
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interesting reading from the link above. I think the get out used to be that the regs said 'goods vehicle' for the larger vehicle requirements, so if it was a private vehicle you could drive any size, but it would appear since 1997 this isn't the case. never bothered me as I have had a CE since the mid 90s anyway,

many commercial users have fell foul of the tacho laws driving a landy with a towbar. regardless of whether you are towing it should be fitted with a tacho, which also now means to operate one you need a CPC.

do you really need a tacho to drive a private vehicle over 7.5 tons?

mind you, I think you should have a class c licence, it is a big vehicle after all. personally I was in favour of the extra test being brought in for towing anything but the smallest trailers and larger vehicles. some 7.49 ton trucks are physically bigger than HGVs.
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