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-   -   mayday mayday iveco broken in india on side of road (http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/4wd-overland-tech/mayday-mayday-iveco-broken-india-48361)

marky116 10 Feb 2010 15:57

mayday mayday iveco broken in india on side of road
 
Hi basically in vasco
low bridge stopped to turn around and truck konked out! Put more fuel in case but was sure that was not the problem.

To indian mechanics went through fuel system the same as I did bleeding cracking of unions etc Still nothing!

Nice man from chevey took me around all truck mechanice nobody wants to know all busy or as I think afraid as its not the norm.


Has any body any clues one mechanic think chain might have slipped and the pumps out of time as fuel appears to be being pumped to injectors.

Mate coming tomorrow to have a look from agonda but looks like it will have to be towed mabey to customs as visa runs out 28th May

Not sure what happens then

any advice would be really welcome, any one know if you have to crack certain unions the manual says at least two

thanks one very depressed and hot

Mark

palace15 10 Feb 2010 18:25

Hope your battery has a full charge firstly, highly unlikely the cambelt has slipped.
If you suspected it was out of fuel, then get a can of fuel, remove the fuel filter and fill it with fuel, now put the rest into the vehicles tank, not sure if you have a self bleed system on that vehicle but get someone reliable(not thick!) to crank the motor over till fuel seeps from the shortest piped injector that you have loosened, start from shortest to longest making sure your person cranking the motor stops cranking when you shout 'stop', when you have done them all, try and start the van with FULL THROTTLE if it starts keep the power on for a while in case any air is still in the system. Hope this is of help and keep the site informed to your progress......Good Luck.

Dodger 11 Feb 2010 02:00

Just generic advice ,as I'm not familiar with your Iveco ,but I have bled hundreds of diesel systems .
First make sure that the fuel line is not ruptured or leaking [and therefore sucking air in ].Work from the tank to the injector pump .
Then
Check the lift pump for crap blocking the filter .
Bleed the filter[s] ,
then the injector pump,
then one of the injectors.
If you have a solenoid operated fuel cut off, make sure it's operating correctly.

If you have fuel then the engine should start .
Some diesels have an air shut off as well for working in some environments ,it's unlikely you have one of these but check anyway .

Fuel might be contaminated with water [water always sinks to bottom of tank ].Undo fuel line and let some run out into a clear container so that you can see .

Always look for the simple stuff first .

Best of luck .

mattsavage 11 Feb 2010 07:53

Yes, do like the others have said and if it still doesn't start try squirting some Easy Start in the intake. (brake cleaner or WD40 will do if you can't get Easy Start).
Maybe it is (like others have said) water in the fuel or a damaged pipe and now you need to bleed the system. If it still won't fire, it should fire (or at least try) on Easy Start.
This is a bit of a bodge, but it should work or at least give you a clue of the problem.

Cheers,
Matt

PS, don't go nuts with the Easy Start!!

Boanerges 11 Feb 2010 22:08

Hi Mark,
This is a long shot but worth checking if all else fails.
The hydraulic timing chain tensioner on these engines relys on oil pressure to work And it is possable if the engine is stalled in gear for the crank to turn backwards enough to snatch on the chain tensioner causing a momentary slackness which allows the chain to jump on the distributor pump sprocket.
It will jump one or two teeth, enough to stop it running.
I have only heard of this happening twice on an Iveco 4x4 usually caused by starting the engine in gear and dumping the clutch before it's got up momentum resulting in a stall.
I have not heard of the cam sprocket jumping so your valve gear will be OK. It's just a case or removing the chain covers and refitting the chain to the correct timing.
I have fitted a manual tensioner to mine to overcome this but I think if your careful with your clutch the standard set up is just fine.

I hope this helps

Best of luck,
Andy

palace15 12 Feb 2010 01:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boanerges (Post 276185)
The hydraulic timing chain tensioner on these engines relys on oil pressure to work And it is possible if the engine is stalled in gear for the crank to turn backwards enough to snatch on the chain tensioner causing a momentary slackness which allows the chain to jump on the distributor pump sprocket.
It will jump one or two teeth, enough to stop it running.
I have only heard of this happening twice on an Iveco 4x4 usually caused by starting the engine in gear and dumping the clutch before it's got up momentum resulting in a stall.

Are you sure about this? surely if the chain or belt was to jump any sprocket it would cause all the timing gears to be out of sync. I once came across a small Renault van that passed the UK emissions test although it was 'white smokin' and the problem was caused by a previous mechanic fitting a timing belt one tooth out, the van appeared to be not suffering any lack of power, but was obviously not timed correctly.

Dodger 12 Feb 2010 02:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattsavage (Post 276067)
Yes, do like the others have said and if it still doesn't start try squirting some Easy Start in the intake. (brake cleaner or WD40 will do if you can't get Easy Start).
Maybe it is (like others have said) water in the fuel or a damaged pipe and now you need to bleed the system. If it still won't fire, it should fire (or at least try) on Easy Start.
This is a bit of a bodge, but it should work or at least give you a clue of the problem.

Cheers,
Matt

PS, don't go nuts with the Easy Start!!

I've seen head gaskets blown ,water jackets pressurised and frost plugs blown out of engine blocks by the use of too much easy start .
Also make sure any glow plugs aren't operating when you spray the easy start .
If you are not sure what you're doing then DON'T USE IT !
It's only ever to be used sparingly .

marky116 12 Feb 2010 12:57

Hi
first of all thanks for all your replies its the norm from such a fab group of people but that just makes it better.

We cracked the unions and fuel seems fine. We removed the timing chain cover and tried to alighn as you would if setting the timing by inserting the metal pegs (drills and punchs into the timing holes within the sprockets. They do not align so this has suggested that its out of time and squirting fuel to late.

When we rotated the crank to check the valves all seemed good but we noticed that the tensioner is knackerd and returns back and fourth which it should'nt. This means that there is enough slack for the chain to bounce around the pump gear. Luckly it appears its has skipped around the pump and not slipped on the cam or the crank as we can get these two timing pegs in, but not in the pump

So it looks like new guides,tensioner which is 500 quid a pop. Howver could have happened in the desert or pakistan but it did'nt thankfully! and my head is appears to be intacked. If this works I have been a lucky boy.

If any body thinks I have missed anything or got it wrong please say!

thanks again mark
p.s every body says its a chain it could nt have happend but its appears it has

palace15 12 Feb 2010 13:13

What is the exact model of this vehicle? use Google seach to try for anymore ideas...........good luck.

nigel_all 12 Feb 2010 21:59

Hi Mark

If it makes you feel any better, it happened to my 40.10WM camper once. I tried to start it with a partly flat battery after it'd stood for a couple of months, the hydraulic chain tensioner was weak and had drained of oil, it snatched badly on the starter and then turned over but wouldn't start even with good batteries.

The timing chain had jumped three teeth on the diesel pump drive sprocket.

I've only just caught up with your post or I would have suggested it earlier, sorry!

I'm now on my third tensioner! However, if you do some careful measuring you could get the old tensioner welded up solid for a get-you-home. It may rattle a bit as it's best to set it a little on the loose side, or the old one may manage once you reset the timing - I drove home from Andorra when my first one went weak, without damage, it was rattling all the way back to England but not excessively.

I have a spare I carry in the truck which is an old hydraulic one with the outer end drilled out, a nut welded on, and a bolt with a locknut screwed into it for manual adjustment of the piston. It's basically a homemade manual tensioner. A local workshop should be able to do something like it.

Hope this helps.

Regards

Nigel

PS: I'm still on the original chain and guides, if they look grooved but not worn through to the metal they will go again.

PPS: Have a look at:
Google Translate

..........and follow the links from 'Iveco's Technology' to the timing chain bit ('Kettenspanner' in German!)

marky116 13 Feb 2010 05:42

what a great link
 
Hi Nigel
what a great link thank you, made me feel that we are down the right track, how inportant is it to change gears as well as chain, have ordered parts from uk!

thanks Mark

hoof 13 Feb 2010 12:56

Hi Mark
Bit of a long shot but we have an appartment in south Goa and many friends there who could probaly help, Just an idea depending where you are but Agonda is not a million miles away, Plus we are due out in the next few weeks if we can help,

rclafton 14 Feb 2010 19:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by marky116 (Post 276370)
Hi Nigel
what a great link thank you, made me feel that we are down the right track, how inportant is it to change gears as well as chain, have ordered parts from uk!

thanks Mark

Mark

Don't know if you've been getting the messages from the 4x4 daily list but the view seems to be to swap the gears aswell, the gears may be worn if the chain can jump

cheers

rich

moodybloo 18 Feb 2010 13:56

timing chain
 
Hi
Had same problem last year on my iveco which had new chain & gears the lot. Happened a few times last year whilst in Africa.Got a new manual tensioner fitted it, worst job is removing thermostat housing & refitting(can be done without removing timing casing)No problems since or any damaged caused.
If your changing the chain then change the gears as you have to strip the front down anyway, the crank gear is very difficult to change however the guides are more important to change & can be done without removing the chain.
But as Nigel suggests a tapped bolt into the tensioner will convert it to manual tensioner & get you back on the road.

Hope this is of help.
Kevin:alien:

marky116 20 Feb 2010 08:23

Hi
your probably right but foolishly have not ordered new gears so hope all will be alright? Did ask iveco mechanics if I have left anything out but they never mentioned this.

Thanks Mark


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