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21 Feb 2008
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Low sulphur diesel
I note with interest that there is a big push to "low sulphur diesel"
This as we know is readily available in UK and most of Europe.
The problem seems to arise when crossing to Africa.
How much of an issue is it for newer vehicles with common rail injection to stick to the "low sulphur diesel" ?
Is it that it just runs crappy?
Is there a filter that can be fitted to remove some of the sulphur before it gets injected and burnt?
Please.
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21 Feb 2008
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Hi uk_vette,
Please don't worry - the only reason to reduce Sulphur in diesel fuel is to reduce harmful exhaust emissions (Sulphur Dioxide in this case). Sulphur acts as a lubricant, therefore for diesel fuel injection systems (that are entirely lubricated by diesel fuel), having Sulphur in the fuel is actually an advantage - the low Sulphur fuel has to have an additional lubricant added to it to prevent damage to the fuel injection systems.
Performance-wise, there is absolutely no difference bewteen low sulphur and full sulphur and any diesel vehicle, regardless of age will run perfectly on either (assuming the overall fuel quality is the same)
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22 Feb 2008
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With high sulphur content diesel generally it is a good idea to shorten the oil change interval - not a big deal, generally accepted Toyota standard for areas of poorer fuel would be oil and filters every 5,000km. So called 'mining' conditions (i.e driven like it's stolen and over rocks with 1 ton in the back) for some vehicles is as low as 2,500.
Our diesel here in Ghana is pretty crap quality and in the bush we have done back to back tests of two identically aged large machines - one with conventional mechanical fuel injection, one with high pressure unit injectors. On 5000hrs of use the conventional injection was shagged and plungers and barrels had to be replaced as the machine would no longer start when hot. Unit injected machine starts on the button the same as it did 5,000 hrs ago.
Has led me to believe that so long as contamination by particles is minimized a modern engine will actually arguably run longer on dodgy fuel - but regular filter changing and servicing is a must.
Gil
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22 Feb 2008
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Hi Gil,
Thanks for the information.
Just a few more oil filters and oil Mobil 1 purchased locally?
I have the 2005 Land Cruiser, D4D which is common rail high pressure injection.
From what I hear, the electronics can adjust to cope with the fuel then?
However it must be CLEAN, CLEAN fuel.
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23 Feb 2008
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yeah more regular oil/filter changes dont hurt.....
As Gil says in WA the diesel isnt low sulphur - its got a high sulphur content IMO - I dont think an excess of sulphur is good for the engine either personally as it reduces the cetane rating and reduces the engine oil life - my opinions - the sump oil is noticably blacker quicker over there from a combination of being worked hard (high load & RPM) and high sulphur content.
I made sure I did interim fuel filter changes between servicing - I saw a few bush taxis with shagged fuel pumps through lack of regular fuel filter changes and the generally poor quality fuel.
With a nice new vehicle id be tempted to put a 'pre filter/water separator' inline before the OE fuel filter:
Racor Diesel Spin-On Series Filters / Water Separators
Last edited by Gipper; 23 Feb 2008 at 18:51.
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23 Feb 2008
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BP were selling Low sulphur as far north as Kenya - don't know about west africa though - none in Zim (as with eveything else). As Gil says normal oil change intervals are halved in Africa - so every 3000miles or 5000km seems adequate for good quality oil changes. Good quality oil filters are expensive though - esp. Toyota ones - I have found Bosch or even Gud filters adequate and more reasonably priced.
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24 Feb 2008
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Exactly! As Gipper and Bundu point out. The car will do fine, but important to minimise particulate problems - as Gipper says a spin on pre-filter like Racor or Separ or a CAV will be good, and you will probably find that you save some money on filters by changing the pre-filter rather than the high efficiency very fine OE one quite often. With the oil just make sure you are buying sealed, branded oil - shell or mobil etc. I say sealed as I have come across re-used oil containers where you cannot be sure what is inside.
Some info here:
http://www.enginemanufacturers.org/i...DieselFuel.pdf
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24 Feb 2008
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So, firstly,
Engine oil changes 3000 miles / 5000 km. and Shell or Mobil from sealed new containers, using oil filters I bring with me from UK.
Secondly
Fit a fuel pre-filter.
I guess this will be mounted on the inside of the engine compartment, on a convienient bulkhead.
I have seen CAV "stand-alone" filters.
These have an upper housing, wich is also the securing to the bulkhead.
Then a metal filter is screwed to the underside of the upper housing.
The filters I have seen are perhaps 100mm top to bottom, and maybe 60mm diameter.
How will I know that the filter within is finer than the vehicle filter, so the new additional filter stops the crud, before it gets to the vehicle filter.
I will have to find out from Toyota or a filter manufacture, what filter properties the vehicle filter will filter down to, them buy a pre-filter accordingly.
Am I correct in the understanding?
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24 Feb 2008
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You can avoid the need for en route oil changes due to high sulphur levels by using oil with a high TBN number, such as Millers XFD synthetic. This also works out cheaper and means you don't have to carry an extra supply of the stuff. One filling should get you to southern Algeria and back....
Total Base Number - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Andrew
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24 Feb 2008
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Thanks Andrew,
I learn some thing every day.
TBN was a total unknown.
Graham
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24 Feb 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uk_vette
So, firstly,
Engine oil changes 3000 miles / 5000 km. and Shell or Mobil from sealed new containers, using oil filters I bring with me from UK.
Secondly
Fit a fuel pre-filter.
How will I know that the filter within is finer than the vehicle filter, so the new additional filter stops the crud, before it gets to the vehicle filter.
Am I correct in the understanding?
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With a CAV or Separ normally the idea is that the pre-filter is actually a higher micron rating and so is not as fine as the final filter before the pump. That way when your fuel is not so great you catch a lot of crud before and so reduce the "load" on the final filter - thus saving on expensive final filters. The OE final filter should be enough to protect your injection system, the idea is just to have a bit of extra security and avoid really frequent changing. Big advantage of the CAV type is that they are used by so many types of engine and so readily available, and that you can drain down water that settles from the fuel. I am not sure with the Prado if there are any real differences in a D4D "Europe" or "Africa" spec in terms of filter arrangements and so on. I will try and find out what I can as we are currently discussing buying a couple of Prados to replace two 105 cruisers. Unfortunately with the 105 discontinued the alternatives are now only 200 series (tasty but pricey) 76 series (leaf springs and those using the cars for weekend trips to the smoke won't thank me for that!) or the Prado. Will speak to local Toyota guys and see what they say.
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24 Feb 2008
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Thanks Gil,
Now it becomes clearer, pardon the pun !
So for example, a pre-filter of say 10 micron filtration, and the O.E. filter of say 5 micron, (just an example)
If you can find out your end regarding the OE filter, then I can compare it with the OE in UK.
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2 Aug 2008
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Wanted to resucitate this thread for two reasons:
1) For Graham: we ended up buying Prados with the good old 5L engine - so unfortunately I cannot provide any more info about african D4d... Nice vehicles, drove one yesterday and quite impressed. Only comment would be that the back end tended to skip around on terrible pot-holes and corrugations. Of course with some load and maybe lower tyre pressures I am sure it would be right. Although they are brand new Prados, they are really pretty simplified - part time 4by system as well as the simple engine.
2) On the issue of sulpher. Well, we decided to send off a sample to a German analysis company. Our fuel was fully within EN-590 (Euro Diesel Norms) except sulpher! Euro IV standards apparently specify 10mg/kg sulpher in Diesel now. Ours was 1410!!! Unbelievable difference.
G
Last edited by gilghana1; 2 Aug 2008 at 15:31.
Reason: mixed me prado engines
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3 Aug 2008
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Hi Gil,
I am glad of your feedback on the Prado.
So perhaps with a good load in the rear, then the backend could be a bit more planted.
Do you, on the short time you had the Prado, think it is up to the job of a trans-africa drive?
I don't think I would be doing too much off road, but then, I might look at doing more off road than planned, when I get there and get a feel for it.
the sulpher,
WOW, !
now that is a huge difference, but then again sulpher is no real bad thing for the engine, it is more of a lubricant, but clogs up the oil, just means the oil takes a hammering, and needs to be changed more often, like every 2000 miles for the D4d ?
Great to hear from a reliable source in the area.
graham
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4 Aug 2008
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Many Euro 4 diesels have particulate filters and/or NOx converters that use AdBlue. These device are damaged by high sulfur fuel. This is why the mfgs insist on low sulfur fuel for Euro 4.
I think a Euro 4 will run on high sulfur, the "check engine" light or other warning messages will come on and you may need some very expensive exhaust parts replaced when you return. At least this is the deal with US EPA 2007 vehicles and I think Euro 4 and 5 are similar, with at least one converter in the exhaust stream.
Euro 3/EPA 2004 and earlier are fine with high sulfur diesel.
Charlie
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