Horizons Unlimited - The HUBB

Horizons Unlimited - The HUBB (http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/)
-   4WD Overland Tech (http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/4wd-overland-tech/)
-   -   Countries that sell Adblue? (http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/4wd-overland-tech/countries-that-sell-adblue-65380)

grizzly7 21 Jul 2012 14:56

Countries that sell Adblue?
 
Hi folks

Being kinda curious, I was wondering how many countries outside of Europe sell Adblue for trucks? I can't find a list :(



I'm thinking that at the moment if I bought a new truck today to turn into a camper and travel, it "probably" won't run without it. Two different sources have suggested you need a volume of about 20l of Adblue per 500 miles (at 10 miles per UK gallon roughly speaking!), so for a trip of 20,000 miles I'd need 1000l of it! Thats a lot to carry from the start!



Longer term the Euro 5 standard will spread, but slowly. So in five or ten years time I'd need to buy an even older truck (to be Euro 3 or earlier and no Adblue) for many areas of the world. You may even reach a point where a truck suitable in some less developed countries is illegal in low pollution ones.

Any input welcomed!

Cheers

Jason

:)

tacr2man 21 Jul 2012 15:04

ad blue
 
you can buy simulators that send the right signals to the engine ecu so it does not derate for emissions regs in countries where they do not req and dont have adblue suppliers :thumbup1: try googling ad blue simulators HTSH

m37charlie 22 Jul 2012 17:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by grizzly7 (Post 386634)
Two different sources have suggested you need a volume of about 20l of Adblue per 500 miles (at 10 miles per UK gallon roughly speaking!), so for a trip of 20,000 miles I'd need 1000l of it! Thats a lot to carry from the start!


:)

Your consumption estimate is way off.
AdBlue consumption is about 1.5% fuel consumption. So if fuel consumption is 20L/100km, AdBlue consumption would be 0.3L/100km.
So 20L would last 6700km.
A Unicat Actros built for an owner in China had a 148L tank:

[url=http://www.unicat.net/en/info/EX70HDM-MBActros6x6.html]UNICAT

At 40L/100km fuel consumption the AdBlue would last 25000km.
At your figure of 10mi/imp. gal, that is about 28L/100km or AdBlue consumption or 0.42L/100km. 1000L would last 238,000 km or 143,000 miles!
Of course the best thing would be to delete SCR/DPF if technically possible and not subject to close annual inspection.

Charlie

grizzly7 22 Jul 2012 20:08

2 Attachment(s)
Hi Charlie.

I'd visited a Merc dealer in the UK asking that very question about a U4000/5000, and was told the Adblue 18l tank needs refilling about every two 145l diesel tank fulls, and an Adblue site I then checked said 5% of diesel consumption. Bad mental arithmatic got me matching the website and Merc dealer info, sorry.

If the Merc dealer is correct, and allowing for extra consumption off tarmac as well as variation in trip milage then 1000l of Adblue still isn't overkill if you can't buy it. Wether it is available is what I was trying to ascertain.

A current Volvo truck website says "It is expected that the average AdBlue consumption will be about 5% by volume of diesel consumption for Euro IV and about 6% for Euro V", and a presumably older DAF site says 3-4% for Euro IV.

Adblue - Adblue : Volvo Truck and Bus Centre North & Scotland

http://www.daf.eu/SiteCollectionDocu..._the_facts.pdf

This chart also suggests 5%, maybe the Merc dealer was a little out, or does a new Mog just uses more?!

Information�::�AdBlue Online

But anyway, where can you buy the stuff??!!

Jason

:)

m37charlie 22 Jul 2012 21:16

4-6% seems high, my personal experience is only 1.5% but it is with a US EPA 2012 BMW X5 35d which has a (dreadful) EGR system to further reduce NOx production. Euro 4 and 5 Mercs don't have EGR to my knowledge. Have you talked to anyone who actually drives them?
You are not going to find much AdBlue outside Western Europe and North America (even here it isn't ubiquitous) - in Russia maybe only Moscow and St Petersburg, China just Beijing; I didn't see any bowsers of it in Australia 2010-2012.

Charlie

grizzly7 23 Jul 2012 12:19

Hiya

I didn't think it would be available, and hadn't found much info for it outside of Europe, but maybe someone will pop up saying "yes I can buy it in xxxxx". There were a few sites in the Middle East.

No I havn't spoken to anyone using it, it just seems to me to be another reason to stick with something older at the moment!

Jason

:)

tacr2man 23 Jul 2012 20:03

For what its worth adblue usage in trucks(HGV) various makes seems to vary a lot by type of motoring you are doing , ie when at limited speed on motorway cruise very light usage , when working hard eg pulling up hills on windy country roads usage increases quite a bit . Sorry cant give figures as due to its availability and not paying for it how fast it was being used didnt bother me ! HTSH

monster 25 Jul 2012 09:06

Hi
why do you need adblue outside of europe. if overlanding nobody will check, so the adblue tank can be empty, it is only a additive to the exhaust fumes to break them down and not a additive to your diesel.
just a thought having spent 7 years on the road and seen the state of local truck emmisions.

have funbier

grizzly7 25 Jul 2012 13:38

Hi

Thank you for the replies! :)

monster local truck emissions can be what they like, that has no bearing on how your shiny new truck works! According to the Mercedes truck dealer I spoke to last week, when Euro 5 first came out the engine on the model I looked at would run for a while if you ran out of Adblue. Now it will run until you come to a stop and turn the engine off, but on restart it will only be at 50% power to enable you to get home, to a garage etc. The engine itself may well run perfectly well without Adblue since as you say it gets put into the exhaust not with the diesel. But the ECU, on the truck I looked at at least, means you need Adblue all the time or you're stuck. I could buy the same vehicle (as an export only) at Euro 3 so no Adblue, but thats illegal in the UK, so I could officially export it to somewhere with minimal emissions legislation but then couldn't come home with it long term for future trips. Asking Bremach the same thing received the response that they (and everyone else in their opinion) either build a truck for Europe or (for instance) for Africa, no-one makes one that does both. (Heavier than 3500kg)

I'm sure, once out of warranty, you can get the ECU reprogrammed to bypass the emissions equipment but that has to be (legally) once out of the EU, and reversed on return. If new trucks were designed to be perfectly happy to run without the extra cost of Adblue then surely everyone would not bother with the extra cost of it until test time?

So, today I can buy a fifteen year old truck that I can drive almost everywhere in the world, the current exceptions are the few European cities with strict emissions limits (unless you pay £200 per day for London for instance which must make the pollution OK in some way?). But a new truck can actually be a bad idea because of the emissions junk Europe requires, apart from carnet cost considerations.

If Adblue were widely available it wouldn't be an issue, but how available is it?

:)

tacr2man 25 Jul 2012 14:53

As previously posted the answer
AdBlue-Simulator By Toussaint Motorenwerke GmbH, Germany
German firm so will probably have been specced for mercs man etc
The fact that trucks built as you have found for Eu and non EU would not suggest that adblue will be available in many if not most "third worlD" countries as the trucks wont be needing it . It was a bit patchy in UK to start with . HTSH

cedar 31 Jul 2012 18:23

Blue MAN
 
If you use MAN they have a double Cat rather than Ad Blue. It is basically synthetic urea, or pigs piss, so you may be able to find some down on the farm!

Cheers

Bruce:cool4:

bnicho 2 Aug 2012 00:36

AdBlue is becoming available in Australian BP's now. So that might help if your journey includes Australia.

Cheers,

m37charlie 5 Aug 2012 17:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by cedar (Post 387796)
If you use MAN they have a double Cat rather than Ad Blue. It is basically synthetic urea, or pigs piss, so you may be able to find some down on the farm!

Cheers

Bruce:cool4:

This is not very helpful.
Euro 4 and 5 MANs have an option of extreme EGR or AdBlu to control NOx, but I believe Euro 6 MANs will require AdBlu. No matter what they call it, it is 32% urea and a standardized formula; pig urine will NOT work.
I would suggest the deletion possibility mentioned above.

Charlie


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 21:57.


vB.Sponsors