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  #16  
Old 22 Dec 2003
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Changing boost on interooler install is normally only done for 200 Tdi's to bring them up to match a 300tdi (from .8 bar to 1 bar) (Allisport process)

The intercooler is a course core so it does not constrict the cooling to the radiator unduly, if your really worried then put an ali radiator in too :-)

Playing with the boost and fuelling without a larger intercooler is probabily the recipe for blown turbos and hotter engines as roman has found.

The 2.8 TGV seems to be a good swap - they are available and bearmach are now a suppliers for engines and parts.

Not sure about this 1000 USD deal - as thats about 3800 off the real price ! I have spoken to the engine manufacturers and they are not that cheap ex factory

As for turbo's - I have always allowed my turbos to spin down before switching off (only 15-30 seconds)

I hear the turbo on mine - but then I sit ontop of my 300tdi - and boy would i like one of those 2.8's for Tiggurr



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  #17  
Old 22 Dec 2003
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Rich, not being a turbo expert, I am curious to know if anyone can expand on raising to boost on a 200TDI from 0.8 to 1.0 bar, the 300 has a different turbo than the 200, so my querry is can the 200 turbo reliably produce this extra boost, as I am wondering if the 300 has a larger turbo alowing it to run at 1.0 instead of 0.8 as on the 200TDI.

If both turbo`s are of the same capacity, well there should be no problems, but if the 200 turbo is smaller making it do the work of the 300s then there is the potential for doing as Roman has done to his.

Hope this make sense

Col
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  #18  
Old 26 Dec 2003
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Hi Col

Cannot give a straight technical answer as Andy has gone skiing so you'll have to have my non technical one about differences between 200 & 300 Turbos and that is that this has always been done to 200's comming out of the workshops and it has never produced a problem - i'll post again on this once I get a detailed answer early Jan



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  #19  
Old 26 Dec 2003
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Thanks Rich, I`m also going to contact Turner Engineering for their view on the subject, as I`m in two minds of what to do to my 200TDI 110, when I upgrade the intercooler I`d like to up the boost, but not if it is going to effect the reliability, if I stuff a turbo in the UK, its an inconvenience, if it happens in the middle of know where it`s going to a lot bigger inconvenience than having that extra bit of power.

Col

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  #20  
Old 6 Jan 2004
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Well, just got off the phone after making a few enquiries and a bit more research, and have come to the conclussion, that there should be no real problems with a minor tweak of the boost and a bit extra fuel, and most people will get away with cranking up the boost for the extra power, but the impression I got was for reliability go for a minor tweak for saftey`s sake and if you do go any further install an EGT gauge so you can keep a track of whats really going on in there and back off or de-tune your engine to a stage where the EGT margin is`nt pushed to far.

There are also reliable gains to be had of 8-10HP with some minor porting of the cylinder head, to allow it to breath a bit free`er, with out any danger of engine damage.

So to sum up my views on it all for a bit of extra power with out compramising reliability in the middle of know where, would be if budget allows, is a bit of head work, bigger intercooler and a minor boost and fuel increase, and instal an EGT gauge if you are going to go any further. I also think that with the extra bit of power it may help the rest of the drive line a bit by not having to trash the thing through the gears quite as much to keep the thing going.

Col
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  #21  
Old 6 Jan 2004
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So Col,

after researching the work is there anyone who can do the lot - ie gas flowed head and intercooler plus adjustments?

re Intercooler have seen good reports from alisport and twisted animations and re the gas flowed head - turner.

Any comments?
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  #22  
Old 6 Jan 2004
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I hav`tn spoken to any one who can do every thing together, but when our bank account allows, they will be the companies we`ll be using.

Col

[This message has been edited by Col Campbell (edited 06 January 2004).]
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  #23  
Old 7 Jan 2004
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Col,
Want more power - read this:

http://www.lrenthusiastforum.com/ubb...b=5&o=0&fpart=

I hope things do not go pear shaped for you.

HNY 2004 to all!

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  #24  
Old 7 Jan 2004
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Thanks Roman, I read that thread ages ago, but will go through it again when I get time, but to me that all seems very hit and miss, doing every thing by smoke screems etc, if I had the equipment to test my boost p/x before and after adjustments I`d consider giving it a go, but in all honesty I`d like an EGT gauge fitted before I get to carried away and know what boost p/x is there, not just by guessing.

BTW can you give us a brief run down on what you had done to your Disco?

Col
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  #25  
Old 7 Jan 2004
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Col,

Correct me if I am wrong but a DIY job like this (even if done by someone else) is always very h&m , particularly that you are trying to enhance performance without being able to assess long term effects and have no or little comparative data to pour over.

EGT is an indicator of an unwanted process and tells you roughly where the red line is, but how can you guess to what degree the position if the sender affects the readings, having only one engine to experiment on? How do you assess performance? At the start of the trip when you are loaded with hundreds of pounds of fuel and water, or at the end when you are running on empty tanks?

Generally speaking, the more error margin is built into the design, the more reliable though less exciting is its performance. Would you set of in a nitro charged LR knowing the engine can die on you every time you perform a spectacular charge up the dune?

In my LR I had the cylinder head machined to increase the flow, a different injection pump membrane spring and a higher fuel to air ration setting. Also, the turbo boost was increased by ca 50%. Perhaps it worked for others but it surely didn't work for me. The job was done by a guy called Warwick Banks who at one time gained some fame with his performance products, then dissapeared from the scene due to a lawsuit or two when his creations started going pop.

My problems could be due to this or they could be due to something else, I will never be able to tell. So I reasoned like this: if I wanted to stick with a 300Tdi, I would have to accept its performance as a compromise. Alternatively, I could swap the LR engine for soemthing else, like an Isuzu or Daihatsu (some gain in reliability but little in performance terms). I could also try a V8, or a different vehicle altogether. This way I would at least be dealing with known quantities.

I'd be interested to know how you are doing in the future.

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[This message has been edited by Roman (edited 08 January 2004).]
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  #26  
Old 8 Jan 2004
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OK,

Given you comments re tweaking your engine outside normal parametres, is changing the cylinder head the least intrusive performance enhancing option?

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  #27  
Old 8 Jan 2004
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Quote:
Originally posted by ctc:
OK,
Given you comments re tweaking your engine outside normal parametres, is changing the cylinder head the least intrusive performance enhancing option?

Hello ctc,
Hmmm, IMHO the least intrusive performance enhancing option is pointing the car downhil with the wind. ;-) When you tweak one setting, you need to consider the weakest link. Manufacturers do make various tweaks to their engines without major redesign, but then they have the facilities to test the concept for thousands of hours under various conditions. My point is: non-intrusive DIY options create less risk but it's hard to say if they are worth taking if you look at the price - performace side.

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[This message has been edited by Roman (edited 08 January 2004).]
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  #28  
Old 8 Jan 2004
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Roman, thanks for your run down, I have to agree with you on a lot of points there.

For all of this hastle and money for a little extra gain, is it really worth the effort, 375 quid for an extra 8-10hp, definatley worth it if the head had to come off any way, but on a good engine it is probably marginal, the bigger intercooler has to be a bonus any way I look at it, and a small tweak of the boost and fueling should have no real adverse effect, theory any way, I must admit I`m not after any desert racer, just a bit more torque to help a heavy vehicle along without having to thrash it.

I hav`nt got the money to dive into any of this just yet, but as things come along I`ll keep you updated.

I must say I`ve enjoyed this thread, its made me think a little and do a bit of research.

Thanks to all involved.

Col
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  #29  
Old 10 Jan 2004
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I caught up with Andy and asked him about the difference in Turbos between 200 and 300 tdi's

The answer was not a lot apart from the castings for the different mounting arrangements

No 200 turbo upped from .8 to 1.0 bar has caused Andy a problem AS LONG AS ITS BEEN DONE ALONG WITH THE INSTALLATION OF A LARGER INTERCOOLER

Have posted this forum to andy of allisport and he'll hopefully comment directly


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  #30  
Old 19 Jan 2004
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I came across Warick Banks by chance and was discussing upgrades for Tdi's.

He recommends machining the head such that pockets are formed to swirl gases. He also advises various adjustments to the fuel pump. He sells reconfigured pumps for 500GBP.

Interstingly he does not rate the intercooler option (only better for top end)or better porting on the cylinder head (not important for a turbo diesel)!

I have to say keeping the engine standard is looking more and more attractive and certainly a cheaper option! Everyone you ask has a different take on the subject.

[This message has been edited by ctc (edited 26 January 2004).]
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