Beauty is in the eye of the beholder

The expedition defender was on MTs as far as I can remember.

I just need to find a turbo 4236

__________________
The Simpler, the Better!

As has been correctly deduced - a big-capacity turbo diesel engine with low-reving characteristics - what we rightly or wrongly call call 'torquey' , is well suited to power-sapping desert conditions. Let alone experience, techinque, etc.

I was also attracted to Series simplicity once. Finding the regular diesel engine nice and gruntly but slow (and all the rest), I got another one with a 3-litre, 4 cyl Perkins (dont know the numbers).
Before I even left the country it had shagged the transmission and I realised it would shag it again because they were not complimentary - hence the box on p.84.
I guess its OK running around the UK with a Perked-up Series, but in the desert the first deep bogging or heavy dunes would ping the axles (if your lucky). You don't just need power or torque out there, you need a whole package that is built for the conditions.

A tractor has a lot of torque, I would guess, plus big tall tyres, great visibility and a natty raised air intake! It does not make it a good desert overlander.

Chris S

__________________
Adventure Motorcycling Handbook 8 • Morocco Overland 3 • Overlanders Handbook 2 • Twit

Hi Chris

Sorry this thread degenerated. My interest is in your BHP per tonne figure. The figure seams to suit the revier petrol engines, more than torquey diesel engines, especially on comercial vehicles.

As a kid I had to just take things apart to see how they worked. I do not beleive that cars are made out of the best bits. I beleive they are built out of what can be modified to last just long enough to get the customer to buy a replacement vehicle. Maybe I have been around Land Rovers to long??

My ultimate aim would be to build a unique overlander out of all the best bits out there, but that goes against everthing you wrote in your book. As you know I am on with building the 2a FC into a camper overland using the best Series/RR bits Land Rover made. Unfortunatly they never built (except in Lofty) a diesel engine powerfull enough to push a loaded FC along, so going for the Perkins.

Will give you a call from the desert to tell you, you were right all along, next year.

With the money I have spent, I could have gone out and bought a toyota, but anyone can do that these days and where's the chalenge in that?

Thanks to everyone that replied.

Mick

------------------
The Simpler, the Better!


[This message has been edited by Jabbawocky (edited 04 March 2005).]

__________________
The Simpler, the Better!

There really is something strange about some LR fans, It's almost more important to fiddle about with the mechanicals of a vehicle which, according to their actions, wasn't strong enough in the first place than to go out and enjoy the places you intend to visit.
I like the idea of a vehicle without a snout (FC) but consider why LR discontinued the 101 and stopped development on the Lama.
There just isn't enough of a market for a vehicle that's too cumbersome to be a car and too fragile to be a truck.
The load bay is so high that it might as well be a lorry but it has neither the carrying capacity nor the width to be proportional once you put a standing height camper box on the back.
It's tricky keeping an overland equipped vehicle, let alone a camper, under 3.5 tonnes; surely it's more practical to just buy a 7.5 tonne lorry? British licences allow it. It's forward control, the transmission, chassis and suspension are designed for the load, you get bigger tyres which is always a plus in the sand, and if it's not loaded to capacity there's a comfortable margin of security in all the working parts.
And you can put a bed across it instead of along, a great saving of living space.

Just a thought, obviously if, like me, you've only got 35 days holiday a year you need to have something to do for all the other weekends... you could concentrate on the camper box.
I'm sorry if I've offended any LR FC enthusiasts, I can see how once you've put personal time into a vehicle a fondness can develop (for the comfort of the overalls and the weight of the toolbox too ;-)))

Enjoy your preparations
Luke
Coolmatic CF 80
a lot of cold drinks
and an annoying habit of listing useless ans pretentious things after his name...

Mick,
I wouldn't read to much into the figures, Especially for commercial vehicles, Ive driven trucks that on paper should be great - but were absolute dogs in sand - as you can have loads of torque and still have the worlds worst overlander with the wrong gearing - that is what counts - get you gearing correct for the engine torque and power and you will be fine - if you can keep the engine revs at the sweet spot while accelerating and doing all those gear changes with very little momentum all is well.
Your FC has good gearing and torque for its laden weight - just keep it as light as you can and you should be fine.

Luke
Yes, us Land Rover Anoraks are a strange bunch aren't we ?
They stopped development of the Llama, as LR knew it was not going to beat the Pinzgaur in the Procurement tests- The Pinzgaur too - is too small to be a truck, to big to be a car and has a high load area - and over the last 20 years has sold thousands of units around the world.

Sounds nice the 7.5 ton -however it would probably be the worst thing going - underpowered, completely overgeared, still heavy - bad fuel cosumption - 4 or 5 k/pl, and an undriven axle with a heavy block over it - not a good idea really is it ?

The FC like anything is a compromise - but at least its proved itself with sterling service to the forces in its day and did the first ever self sufficient West-East Trans Sahara Crossing. (Tom Sheppard)
As for strength, Ive seen quite a few FC's air dropped at the wrong height out the back of Hercules and still drive off the parachute platforms afterwards...
Cheers
Grif

Sorry mate - does the use of my long signature offend you ?
I just like to keep in touch with other Rockapes, Overland Drivers, People who Drive 90s or Ride DR650s - which has just been stolen - so I will shorten it just for you....

[This message has been edited by Gipper (edited 07 March 2005).]

__________________
Cheers
Grif

'11 KTM 450 EXC
'09 Suzuki DR650
'00 Discovery Series 2 V8
'95 Defender 90 300 Tdi Overlander
http://gipperstravels.blogspot.ca

Sorry to hear about your loss, especially as you were keen on switching to two wheels which has its merits (fewer arguments with the passenger cos there isn't one
When I wrote lorry I neglected to specify that I meant a 4WD truck of course; although I'm tickled to see an advocate of 101s talk about fuel economy...
Pinzis are almost as thirsty, and a super vehicle.
At the risk of reoffending, one of the reasons the Pinzis were guaranteed to win contracts is their legendary reliability. How many accounts of repairs and bodges necessary to get home do we see on the web? Perhaps it's because there are so many of them out there but the (I have to admit) easily repairable Landy features quite a lot.
It's clear your experience shows, your 90 was very lightly laden when we crossed paths in Ghana - which is the best way to make any vehicle last. I should try and put my Iveco on a diet, it's also a surprisingly capable old heap.
Happy trails
Luke

Luke,
Yes Fuel Cosumption and FC arent 2 words that spring to mind together are they ?
A nice grumbly Diesel will sort that out a bit though. Those V8s sound lovely though....

With Trucks, the middle sized ones never were much good - Unimog was ok but tyre size always too small for sand - The Steyr S21 was about the only good medium sized 4x4 truck in sand - much better to go big straight off - MAN 8x8 much better capability and capacity and 1 k/pl YIKES !

If you go down to Arborfield where they repair the majority of Military vehicles and talk to the REME and Civvi mechanics, it is not all sweetness and light with Pinzgaur, they spend a bit of time off road - in workshops - but they certainly cut the mustard when they are working off road and the latest TD's appear to be the Dogs Maracas..especially that 6x6....

Yes bit of a blow with the DR, Lifes a Bitch etc.....but it goes on - gives me a good excuse to blow some Insurance dosh on a second hand KTM Adventure - another machine that is horribly unreliable - but has an amazing following because of its capability when it works.
Sounds like Land Rover......

No Offence Taken, Cheers Mate
Grif

------------------
Ex Rockape, Ex Drago,
LR 90 300 Tdi Overlander - Lighter than CF 80 Fridge
Ex Suzuki DR650 Overlander *Stolen - L185 KDA *
..and Bloody Nice Bloke!

__________________
Cheers
Grif

'11 KTM 450 EXC
'09 Suzuki DR650
'00 Discovery Series 2 V8
'95 Defender 90 300 Tdi Overlander
http://gipperstravels.blogspot.ca

Then ... if you want diesel and factory-like reliability in your FC , you could fit an entire "Santana 6 cyl" drivetrain.

It is based in the old diesel series engine , but -litterally- adding two cylinders more .Othre than the obvious It shares most parts with the standard 4 cyl one.

It is a perfect fit on the tranny -literally bolt-on , althought you could go also for the Santana box , which apparently is a heavier duty version of the series one.

Then you could have a 95 HP -SAE- forward control , so you at least , got a chance in the sand , althought If I were You Id go for a 101 FC , or as someone said , a medium sized truck (4-6 Ton) . The fact that you can put a bed/matress sideways is indeed a good point , as is being able to stand up in the box.Also the bigger loading capacity gives peace of mind .

Good luck !! .
JAvier.

What about the Perkins Phazer engines - available from old dodges or ex mil rb44's.

I have a friend with one of these in his 101 and its great - it would haul up hills in Iceland with low revs and had plenty of grunt to deal with the sand. It is basically the turbo versio of your engine i believe

A good engine as long as you mate it to the right (ie. strong) gearbox



------------------
Rich
LR101 300Tdi Ambi 'Tiggurr'

__________________
Rich

Iveco Turbo Daily 4x4 40-10
Ex Owner LR101 300Tdi Ambi 'Tiggurr'