Go Back   Horizons Unlimited - The HUBB > 4 wheels > Equipping the Overland Vehicle
Equipping the Overland Vehicle Vehicle accessories - Making your home away from home comfortable, safe and reliable.
Photo by Daniel Rintz, Himba children, Namibia

The only impossible journey
is the one
you never begin

Photo by Daniel Rintz,
Himba children, Namibia



Overlanders Handbook - everything you need to know, available NOW!

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 18 Jan 2007
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: London
Posts: 144
low 3rd/D

Quote:
Originally Posted by NCR
In fact I never drove in third low! As mentioned before, I can only use low range in the Toyo in (great) slopes or when crossing obstacles slowly.
I have an auto HDJ81 and have driven in low D quite a lot. With centre and rear diff locks on it is wondefully powerful particularly if you have a heavy right foot. With the front diff lock on, it is even better but only in a straight line - great for getting out of trouble when there are no bends around.

Starting off in low D in my car is fine, but if I want the box to change up, it responds best to a heft boot from the right foot. Once in 3rd, speed and power is excellent.

This auto box is one of the reasons I went for an HDJ81. The thread started with a q re the pros and cons of auto v manual and whether a Patrol is a 'close equivalent to a Toyota Landccruiser'. Chacun a son gout...but as my car has to get me about back here in London traffic and the UK and do the trips I want to do, I went for auto.
__________________
pigapitcha

http://www.jljphotography.co.uk
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 18 Jan 2007
Gipper's Avatar
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Saltspring Island,Canada/Poole,UK
Posts: 1,081
Hi NCR,
You have more experience with TLCs than I do - Ive driven a few VXs/80s we had in the Military (hired) -they are very good.
Maybe the TLC is the exception - but every other auto I have ever driven when compared to a manual has this traight of running faster due to the torque converter.........


Quote:
Originally Posted by NCR
Hi Gipper,

The thing is that with an auto the power delivery is so smoth that the need to start in a specific gear doesnt exist. For instance, I dont see a situation where I'd need to start in third in my auto... In fact I never drove in third low! As mentioned before, I can only use low range in the Toyo in (great) slopes or when crossing obstacles slowly.

......Maybe the need to start in a specific gear does not exist for you - but believe me, on the terrain I drive it is a big help - and has got me out of many a bogging - if im working vehicles in tight slippery woodland with very steep slopes, here in the UK or Canada - I need to be in low range for control....and selecting a higher low range gear does work a treat....reducing torque to the wheels...especially on a slippy hill start, a long slippy hill climb or on ice......or soft sand.....when your transmission is hot beceause you are in high range maybe ?
Next time you are climbing something slippy, try a higher, low range gear....you might be suprised how well it works...and if you fail the climb you have the control of low range reverse to bring you back down.....instead of coming backwards in high range.

Im trying to highlight the pros and cons of autos IMO and experieces as per the original question......the torque and power you have in the TLC means you can be 'lazy' with using gears - but is not something that every vehicle has...so making use or the ability to use all the gears IMO is a big advantage.
__________________
Cheers
Grif

'11 KTM 450 EXC
'09 Suzuki DR650
'00 Discovery Series 2 V8
'95 Defender 90 300 Tdi Overlander
http://gipperstravels.blogspot.ca

Last edited by Gipper; 18 Jan 2007 at 22:41.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 18 Jan 2007
NCR NCR is offline
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Lisboa, Portugal
Posts: 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gipper
Hi NCR,
You have more experience with TLCs than I do - Ive driven a few VXs/80s we had in the Military (hired) -they are very good.
Maybe the TLC is the exception - but every other auto I have ever driven when compared to a manual has this traight of running faster due to the torque converter..........

Hi,

Probably true...I've never offroaded another auto.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gipper
......Maybe the need to start in a specific gear does not exist for you or you - but believe me, on the terrain I drive it is a big help - and has got me out of many a bogging - if im working vehicles in tight slippery woodland with very steep slopes, here in the UK or Canada - I need to be in low range for control....and selecting a higher low range gear does work a treat....reducing torque to the wheels...especially on a slippy hill start, a long slippy hill climb or on ice......or soft sand

The need to start in a specific gear always existed for me when I drove previous owned 4X4s. When off roading, most of the time I used low range and started in 2 or 3, as everyone else. I'm not a "clutch killer" as you pretend. I've never burned a clutch or transmission before and have drived very heavily loaded 4X4s in the Sahara in high temperatures.

When I bought the auto 80 I found that if I used low range as often as before, I'd be revving the car almost to the red zone everytime I needed to change from 1 to 2 or 2 to 3 low, as gears only change - in low range - at about 3000 RPM! I thought it wasnt normal and inquired in LC specific forums - as automatic cars are rare in Portugal - and it seems it's not a problem with my driving - as you are insinuating - or my auto box.
The fact is that with my auto 80 I use much less low range then I used before with other cars. Why should I use low range (and stress the engine) if I can use high range without stressing the engine or the gear box??
Other users may have diferent experiences, as stated in an above post.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gipper
.....when your transmission is hot beceause you are in high range maybe ?

My transmition isnt hot. In fact it runs very cool - 60ºC most of the time. It heats up if one uses D (high range) in the sand for the reason Matt explains in another thread. That's why you shouldnt drive in D in deep sand (or mud, or snow).
I'm not stressing the transmission using high range (2 or L) in the sand.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gipper
Next time you are climbing something slippy, try a higher, low range gear....you might be suprised how well it works...and if you fail the climb you have the control of low range reverse to bring you back down.....instead of coming backwards in high range.
I think I said that I use low range when doing slopes (Synonyms: abruptness, bank, bend, bevel, bias, cant, declination, declivity, deflection, descent, deviation, diagonal, downgrade, gradient, hill, inclination, incline, lean, leaning, obliqueness, obliquity, pitch, ramp, rise, rising ground, shelf, skew, steepness, swag, sway, tilt, tip).

And, of course, I use it in mud, rocks, and whenever the situation requires it. My point is I use it less often then before with other previously owned 4X4s.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gipper
Im trying to highlight the pros and cons of autos IMO and experieces as per the original question......the torque and power you have in the TLC means you can be 'lazy' with using gears - but is not something that every vehicle has...so making use or the ability to use all the gears IMO is a big advantage.

I believe I mentioned that your observations were true, in general, but not aplicable to every car, namely the 80. Also, the original question mentions Nissan Patrols and Toyota Land Cruisers. I believe the thread owner is interested in the pros and cons of auto Patrols and LCs. I simply stated my experience with an auto Land Cruiser.

And yes, if one drives a land rover, I absolutely agree one must use every trick in the book ;-)
__________________
Regards,

NCR
Lisboa, Portugal
http://ncr2006.blogspot.com/
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 19 Jan 2007
Gipper's Avatar
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Saltspring Island,Canada/Poole,UK
Posts: 1,081
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCR

I'm not a "clutch killer" as you pretend.

and it seems it's not a problem with my driving - as you are insinuating

My transmition isnt hot

I'm not stressing



And yes, if one drives a land rover, I absolutely agree one must use every trick in the book ;-)
EASY TIGER - Sounds Like your AT Fluid is Boiling over !!!.....I havent accused you of being a 'clutch killer' or that you have a problem with your driving .....so dont bite like a starved piranha

The ONLY trick I used was to winch recover chubby TLCs with my nice light nimble 90.....we'd just driven over the same bit of sand...maybe he had it in the wrong gear ???

Im off for a Beer..why dont you have a nice cold Super Bock and relax....
Grif
Attached Thumbnails
Automatic v Manual Transmission-defender-recovers-tlc.jpg  

__________________
Cheers
Grif

'11 KTM 450 EXC
'09 Suzuki DR650
'00 Discovery Series 2 V8
'95 Defender 90 300 Tdi Overlander
http://gipperstravels.blogspot.ca

Last edited by Gipper; 19 Jan 2007 at 01:01.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 19 Jan 2007
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Ledbury, Herefordshire, UK
Posts: 324
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCR
When I bought the auto 80 I found that if I used low range as often as before, I'd be revving the car almost to the red zone everytime I needed to change from 1 to 2 or 2 to 3 low, as gears only change - in low range - at about 3000 RPM! I thought it wasnt normal and inquired in LC specific forums - as automatic cars are rare in Portugal - and it seems it's not a problem with my driving - as you are insinuating - or my auto box.
This is down to the gearing on the Auto box.

One of the standard 'upgrades' for an 80 is to fit a Centre Diff Lock switch - this will enablle you to engage the centre diff lock in high range.

If you do a further tweak you can also use the switch to disable the centre diff lock in low range (useful for slow towing on tarmac) - there are two ways of doing this, either the 'pin 7 mod' where you disconnect one of the pins on the wires going in to one of the diff lock ECUs or you can simply disconnect one of the connectors on the transfer case.

The second option gives you full manual control over the diff locks as well as it alters the gearing in low range so that the change points are the same as in high range - so basically you no longer need to rev the nuts off the engine in order to change gear.

The Centre Diff Lock switches aren't cheap from Toyota (although you can rip one out of a Rav 4) however it is a mod that it well worth doing.
__________________
Cheers,

Julian Voelcker
Overland Cruisers - Specialising in Land Cruiser preparation and servicing.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 19 Jan 2007
NCR NCR is offline
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Lisboa, Portugal
Posts: 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by JulianVoelcker
This is down to the gearing on the Auto box.

One of the standard 'upgrades' for an 80 is to fit a Centre Diff Lock switch - this will enablle you to engage the centre diff lock in high range.

If you do a further tweak you can also use the switch to disable the centre diff lock in low range (useful for slow towing on tarmac) - there are two ways of doing this, either the 'pin 7 mod' where you disconnect one of the pins on the wires going in to one of the diff lock ECUs or you can simply disconnect one of the connectors on the transfer case.

The second option gives you full manual control over the diff locks as well as it alters the gearing in low range so that the change points are the same as in high range - so basically you no longer need to rev the nuts off the engine in order to change gear.

The Centre Diff Lock switches aren't cheap from Toyota (although you can rip one out of a Rav 4) however it is a mod that it well worth doing.
Hi Julian,

Thanks for the tip. I've already installed a center diff lock switch, and would like different gearing in low range...Where can I found out wich connector we are talking about?
__________________
Regards,

NCR
Lisboa, Portugal
http://ncr2006.blogspot.com/
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 19 Jan 2007
NCR NCR is offline
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Lisboa, Portugal
Posts: 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gipper
The ONLY trick I used was to winch recover chubby TLCs with my nice light nimble 90.....we'd just driven over the same bit of sand...maybe he had it in the wrong gear ???
Maybe the TLC owner was following your advise and using first low! ;-)

PS: Piranha was, in fact, my youth nickname ;-)
__________________
Regards,

NCR
Lisboa, Portugal
http://ncr2006.blogspot.com/
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 19 Jan 2007
Gipper's Avatar
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Saltspring Island,Canada/Poole,UK
Posts: 1,081
When I give driving advice I do it when Im at work in the UK.......in these places.....

http://www.lre-malverns.com/

http://www.lre9.com/

maybe youd like to take a course sometime ?

That is a good mod for the TLC CDL - makes it more like the Land Rover.....
__________________
Cheers
Grif

'11 KTM 450 EXC
'09 Suzuki DR650
'00 Discovery Series 2 V8
'95 Defender 90 300 Tdi Overlander
http://gipperstravels.blogspot.ca
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 22 Jan 2007
NCR NCR is offline
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Lisboa, Portugal
Posts: 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gipper
maybe youd like to take a course sometime ?
I would love to. Maybe when you give a course here, in Portugal.
__________________
Regards,

NCR
Lisboa, Portugal
http://ncr2006.blogspot.com/
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 23 Jan 2007
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Ledbury, Herefordshire, UK
Posts: 324
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCR
Thanks for the tip. I've already installed a center diff lock switch, and would like different gearing in low range...Where can I found out wich connector we are talking about?
You will find an electrical connector and wire at the back of the transfer case at approximately 1 o'clock you will see a connector with a yellow and blue/black wire attached.

Disconnect the connector and protect it in a small plastic back with a zip tie around it. You may also want to put some grease into the socket to keep the damp and dirt out of it.

That will give you 100% control of the centre diff lock via the switch as well as improved gearing in low range.
__________________
Cheers,

Julian Voelcker
Overland Cruisers - Specialising in Land Cruiser preparation and servicing.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 23 Jan 2007
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Scotland
Posts: 775
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gipper
That is a good mod for the TLC CDL - makes it more like the Land Rover.....
Naaa... the only mod making the LC more like the Land Rover is drilling a hole in the oil sump....
;-)
__________________
----------------
Roman (UK)
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 23 Jan 2007
Gipper's Avatar
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Saltspring Island,Canada/Poole,UK
Posts: 1,081
Im Sure LRE will open an Experience Centre in Portugal in the next few years...


Joke away.....my last trip around WA - 30,000km and 5 months - the only thing that broke on the Defender was the tip the left windscreen wiper.....

As a Brit, (and personally for me) its nice to buy a Land Rover that is made in the UK (good,bad or indifferent as it may be) and support (whats left) of our motor industry....I dont buy anything else.............apart from Austrian and Japanese motorbikes......DOH..........!

...and yes they might be owned by Ford....but LR are helping THEM at the moment........
__________________
Cheers
Grif

'11 KTM 450 EXC
'09 Suzuki DR650
'00 Discovery Series 2 V8
'95 Defender 90 300 Tdi Overlander
http://gipperstravels.blogspot.ca
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 28 Jan 2007
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 1,232
the bit above about being able to use low ratio without the diff lock is often overlooked and is a good thing in landrovers favour if you do a lot of towing. for difficult or uphill reversing you can engage low ratio even on grippy tarmac and avoid slipping the clutch. This is a trick I have used many times on landies, and miss a lot on other 4x4s, including my TLC H60 which is only a part time 4x4

and before any snappy types jump in I spent many years driving artics so I know how to reverse a trailer!!
__________________
1990 Landcruiser H60. Full rebuild completed 2014
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 28 Jan 2007
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 1,232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodger
It's more fun the other way round, ie the V8 in the Reliant ;

Voila !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8s8MqizQUeE

and watch out for Reliant "Starsky and Hutch "
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwx4LVa1hro
THATS JUST SILLY!!!
__________________
1990 Landcruiser H60. Full rebuild completed 2014
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 28 Jan 2007
Dodger's Avatar
Large Golden Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 1,085
Quote:
Originally Posted by moggy 1968
THATS JUST SILLY!!!
OH YES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
__________________
Blessed are the cracked, for they let in the light. - Spike Milligan
"When you come to a fork in the road ,take it ! When you come to a spoon in the road ,take that also ."
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 Registered Users and/or Members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
G/S transmission 4 sale: Short 1st, Long 5th gears with kick ScooterNC TRAVEL Equipment for Sale / Wanted 7 12 Nov 2010 22:27
XTZ 600 Tenere 1983 34L Manual ? davetherave Yamaha Tech 1 23 May 2006 11:09
XT600E Factory Service Manual rooihond Yamaha Tech 0 5 May 2006 04:38
XT600E workshop manual Matt Cartney Yamaha Tech 2 3 Oct 2005 19:10
F650 repair manual richardb BMW Tech 2 12 May 2003 19:44

 
 

Announcements

Thinking about traveling? Not sure about the whole thing? Watch the HU Achievable Dream Video Trailers and then get ALL the information you need to get inspired and learn how to travel anywhere in the world!

Have YOU ever wondered who has ridden around the world? We did too - and now here's the list of Circumnavigators!
Check it out now
, and add your information if we didn't find you.

Next HU Eventscalendar

HU Event and other updates on the HUBB Forum "Traveller's Advisories" thread.
ALL Dates subject to change.

2024:

Add yourself to the Updates List for each event!

Questions about an event? Ask here

HUBBUK: info

See all event details

 
World's most listened to Adventure Motorbike Show!
Check the RAW segments; Grant, your HU host is on every month!
Episodes below to listen to while you, err, pretend to do something or other...

2020 Edition of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook.

2020 Edition of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook.

"Ultimate global guide for red-blooded bikers planning overseas exploration. Covers choice & preparation of best bike, shipping overseas, baggage design, riding techniques, travel health, visas, documentation, safety and useful addresses." Recommended. (Grant)



Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance.

Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance™ combines into a single integrated program the best evacuation and rescue with the premier travel insurance coverages designed for adventurers.

Led by special operations veterans, Stanford Medicine affiliated physicians, paramedics and other travel experts, Ripcord is perfect for adventure seekers, climbers, skiers, sports enthusiasts, hunters, international travelers, humanitarian efforts, expeditions and more.

Ripcord travel protection is now available for ALL nationalities, and travel is covered on motorcycles of all sizes!


 

What others say about HU...

"This site is the BIBLE for international bike travelers." Greg, Australia

"Thank you! The web site, The travels, The insight, The inspiration, Everything, just thanks." Colin, UK

"My friend and I are planning a trip from Singapore to England... We found (the HU) site invaluable as an aid to planning and have based a lot of our purchases (bikes, riding gear, etc.) on what we have learned from this site." Phil, Australia

"I for one always had an adventurous spirit, but you and Susan lit the fire for my trip and I'll be forever grateful for what you two do to inspire others to just do it." Brent, USA

"Your website is a mecca of valuable information and the (video) series is informative, entertaining, and inspiring!" Jennifer, Canada

"Your worldwide organisation and events are the Go To places to for all serious touring and aspiring touring bikers." Trevor, South Africa

"This is the answer to all my questions." Haydn, Australia

"Keep going the excellent work you are doing for Horizons Unlimited - I love it!" Thomas, Germany

Lots more comments here!



Five books by Graham Field!

Diaries of a compulsive traveller
by Graham Field
Book, eBook, Audiobook

"A compelling, honest, inspiring and entertaining writing style with a built-in feel-good factor" Get them NOW from the authors' website and Amazon.com, Amazon.ca, Amazon.co.uk.



Back Road Map Books and Backroad GPS Maps for all of Canada - a must have!

New to Horizons Unlimited?

New to motorcycle travelling? New to the HU site? Confused? Too many options? It's really very simple - just 4 easy steps!

Horizons Unlimited was founded in 1997 by Grant and Susan Johnson following their journey around the world on a BMW R80G/S.

Susan and Grant Johnson Read more about Grant & Susan's story

Membership - help keep us going!

Horizons Unlimited is not a big multi-national company, just two people who love motorcycle travel and have grown what started as a hobby in 1997 into a full time job (usually 8-10 hours per day and 7 days a week) and a labour of love. To keep it going and a roof over our heads, we run events all over the world with the help of volunteers; we sell inspirational and informative DVDs; we have a few selected advertisers; and we make a small amount from memberships.

You don't have to be a Member to come to an HU meeting, access the website, or ask questions on the HUBB. What you get for your membership contribution is our sincere gratitude, good karma and knowing that you're helping to keep the motorcycle travel dream alive. Contributing Members and Gold Members do get additional features on the HUBB. Here's a list of all the Member benefits on the HUBB.




All times are GMT +1. The time now is 15:40.