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  #1  
Old 26 Aug 2005
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4x4 vehicle with another motor

i'm interesting in building my own vehicle for overland trip (maybe RTW). It need to have strong and reliable diesel motor and have carrying capacity 1-1.5 tones. I heard that one guy built lada niva with mercedes 220D diesel motor. I was thinking to put diesel motor from mercedes 250 TD with 147 HP ih 4x4 like Mitsubishi Pajero 85' (long), Nissan Patrol 87' long, Defender 110, Land Cruiser. Built large tank.. about 400L, tent on roof and things like that.Do anyone have any idea or experience how to make work mercedes motor with 4x4 gearbox and transmission sistem. Thanks on any suggestions
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  #2  
Old 26 Aug 2005
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why bother? I'm sure it possible one way or another but it'll cost you more in parts and time then buying a 4x4 that already has a decent motor.
Most brands (Toyota, Nissan, Land Rover, ...) have perfectly reliable strong engines that are actually build to be in those cars.
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  #3  
Old 27 Aug 2005
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2CVFred,
I could be wrong but it looks to me like the build might be half the fun for the above! And fair play to him!
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  #4  
Old 27 Aug 2005
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Mgagro,
As mat said,if it's the challange of doing the conversion you want then go for it! I'm not completely sure but i'd have a good guess that a 4wd gearbox from a Merc GE wagen would fit the motor,but quite where you go from there as far as propshafts,etc are concerned....well you'll have to find out! An easier way if you really love the Merc engines is just to get a complete GE wagen.Job done.The running gear on these is all made by ZF and is very very strong,and i think most models have difflocks on all 3 differentials(all the ones i've serviced have anyway).The downside is they're terribly heavy....
As 2cvfred said,personally i'd stick to something thats already had $ millions spent on testing by the factory,and save the money of a conversion for your trip. Best of luck anyway!

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  #5  
Old 31 Aug 2005
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I said Mercedes because i know that theirs engines are reliable... they are spinning for over 500 000 km without any "big" repairs, have fuel consumption about 5-6 L/100 KM (in 4x4 that will be little more). I was thinking in tanking large tanks for little price and save more money with that. If you said that will be hard and expensive what you suggest for me. I need: light wehicle like new defender (about 1200-1400 kg), large loading space, strong roof that can be loaded with 150kg, be good off-roader, reilable and strong (100-130) disel motor with little electronics and need to spinning for over 150 000 km without touching a machine. I think the new 110 Defender is sth i need but it cost >19 000 euro (5 years old) and i dont have that money.... for me is better take sth old fix that (like general reparation on machine, new transmission parts if needed), do body and then i know what i'm driveing... you know what i mean
btw i can do body myselfe and have mechanic who do me reparation for free so i need to pay only new parts
tnx
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  #6  
Old 1 Sep 2005
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I once put a perkins phazer (4l turbo diesel) into a Land Rover 110. It drove like a beast, but i would not do it again, too much stress, and if i costed my time it would probaly be the most expensive landrover ever built!
Good luck.
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  #7  
Old 1 Sep 2005
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You could get an excellent 110 or LC, with a similarily performing engine with change from 8k euro 'ready to travel'. Or you could buy good one to fix up for less than half that.

Those big ugly toyota lumps go on for 400k miles without much worry (apparently). There's one for sale on the site.

Still, a merc-engined 110 - could be cool...

[This message has been edited by Richard K (edited 01 September 2005).]
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  #8  
Old 1 Sep 2005
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So... what did you suggest... maybe put new 2.5 TD from new defender into old one like III series 110? How new turbo disels react on bad fuel from third world countries? How much is fuel consumption of toyota's 4.2 disel engine in LC? I saw that peoples travel with pick-up's like hilux and vehicles like that. Can one pick-up like hilux be compared with one LR 110 on sand and havey terrain? I havn't any experience with that so any help will be good
Tnx
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  #9  
Old 1 Sep 2005
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Quote:
Originally posted by Richard K:
Those big ugly toyota lumps go on for 400k miles without much worry (apparently).

Still, a merc-engined 110 - could be cool...
Sticking the Toyota 4.2, gearbox and transfer case into a LR has been done on a few occasions - it lets LR owners get a stack of reliability without going over to the dark side too far ;-)

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  #10  
Old 1 Sep 2005
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Most of the time, diesel is of good enough quality. At least if you choose to get fuell at branded stations whenever possible.

There's more chances of getting a good overlanding vehicle together if you buy a standard vehicle. Second hand there are good deals to be done on older Nissan Patrols and Landrover Discovery's. The Nissan probably being technically more robust, the LR better of road. There are loads of high-luxes driving around in Africa. I don't think it's the coolest Car, but it cerainly does the job.

Overlanding very seldom is about extreme off roading as you tend to see in magazines. Reasonable off road capabillities and robustness is what you're after, not extreme off road capabillities.

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  #11  
Old 3 Sep 2005
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That's what i need...capability and robust off- road vehicle... i know what you mean with extreme off roading and magazines..thats not it!
I saw on page..
http://www.elphick-pooley.co.uk/htm/index.htm
..this guy travel with Toyota 4Runner but 90% of traveling was on road..
stueydo daid that ne put 4L TD in LR 110 and that caused him much stress...why.. i think its not big problem to put another motor and all another components that belong to that motor (cooler and others)..its true that it takes some time but its worth it
Here in Croatia its hard to find old 2nd Defender in good condition for low price.. i look sth on www.mobile.de but i can't bring in Croatia defender older than 8 years and younger Defenders cost too much. Than its easyer to find defender, patrol or landcruiser older then 15 years for less then 3000eur and find motor from mercedes for 1000eur and for 5000eur i'll get sth i need..
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  #12  
Old 3 Sep 2005
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Dear mgagro,

You can obviously match anything with everything and make it run. The question is for how long? For weekend off-roading it doesn't matter if something breaks down - you just put your not-so-successful vehicular creation on tow and go home to sulk. When you are on a trip in the middle of nowhere you don't want suddenly to find out that despite all the effort you put in it your project is not working exactly as you expected.

This is why you won't find many cars as you described above in places where mechanical reliability is more important than engineering ingenuity.

The fact that your project can be build for less money than a proper vehicle doesn't matter really - when it breaks down you'll spend a lot more money on recovery and fixing it than you have saved by avoiding a car properly built and tested by the manufacturer.

Good luck with your project - you may need it!

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  #13  
Old 3 Sep 2005
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2nth hand defenders are expensive about everywhere. A 200Tdi def with 150K on will catch like 10 000€, a similar disco or classic range will go for 5000 or so in Belgium (and they are pretty much the same car, but with comfort). Patrols can also be found cheap. There was a 200tdi engine for sale for 1800€ on the belgian landrover forum, that can be fitted in an elderly 110 but then, I still believe your better of just buying a disco, RR or patrol and go from there.

And why the 4L conversions go wrong... The LR gearbox is not built for a 4l diesel, and down the line, there are the diffs and half shafts that don't like all this torque.

[This message has been edited by Robbert (edited 03 September 2005).]
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  #14  
Old 4 Sep 2005
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Robbert and I spent some time in Africa accompanying a series LR with a Ford Transit engine last year, I don't recall any transmission problems.

Chassis was shot though I think they got to know EVERY welding shop on the route!!!

My suggestion to Mgagro: when you're ready to set off, buy a small hatchback in Croatia, load it up as you would, drive to Germany, France etc. and pick up an old 4x4. (there are plenty around, for ex. I believe Matt Savage is trying to sell a HDJ80 at the moment, which are a great overlander)

You can transfer all your gear and discover that the vehicle is wonderfully lightly laden!! (even set off with just a rucksack)

My experience of packing the vehicle at home is that you always put in more than you need; unless you're disciplined like Gipper who travels well light (apart from his GF's make-up kit ;-)

You could get your carnet in the country of purchase, and not have to fart around with Croatian import regs.

It's also possible that some of the overlanding accessories are more easily available further west in Europe.

Good luck whatever you choose to do
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  #15  
Old 4 Sep 2005
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Yep,

That was a transit engine, not a 4L diesel. And the engine conversion was reasonably well done. but...

Chasis was shot, brand new springs ruind in no time because someone moved a springhanger in the wrong place somewhen during the last 30 year, ruind springs ruind the polybushes that would last for half a century, and the timingbelt snapped in Gabon because someone thought he'd save some money not changing the tensionner. Unfortunatly, there are no fords in Gabon, so parts had to come from GBR, which inludes passing Gabonese customs...

And then, there's a lot of engergy you need to enjoy the trip going into sorrow.
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