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  #1  
Old 29 Aug 2003
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110 - 130 helpers - what shocks?

Financies dictate that I buy 2nd hand 130 helper springs for 20 quid and put them on my, what will be, overloaded 110 (ex mod, 2.5 n/a etc).

These along with HD Springs in the front will hopefully provide a semi ok solution for bugger all money.

But am wondering what shocks I should put on? Has anybody got any recommendations (not OME though please).

Overloaded 110 - UK to Mori then Mongolia.

Interested in something that will last and offer value more than anything I guess.

Bilstein or Koni seem to be two popular answers when I ask people. Koni apparently have a Twin Tubed variety - anybody know anything about these?

I know Colin/SR are the people to talk to, but some knowledge beforehand would be good.

Anyone offer much insight on the Bilstein option?

Also, steering dampers - thought I'd stick to standard landy one along with standard landy bushes etc

All comments welcome - I know very little about all of this - except it costs mucho mondos :-)

Cheers,
Darrin
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  #2  
Old 29 Aug 2003
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Hi Darrin

not sure why you are anti OME - in my 2.5 years in Africa they were used and recommended by the vast percentage - and my own experience would say that they are the best standard shocks money can buy.
Not certain but I believe that the better Bilsteins and Koni's are adjustable and v. expensive.
Maybe you will receive some more replies which offer alternatives, but you could also try asking - Foleys Specialist Vehicles, Scorpion Racing, Matt Savage, Frogs Island 4x4, Devon 4x4 or Footloose 4x4 - all companies that I or friends have good experience of.
This info is of course Just MHO and does not represent an exhaustive list or exclude any other companies for any particular reason.
Feel free to mail me for any info that you might think is helpful.
Happy travels


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  #3  
Old 29 Aug 2003
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Re a less expensive and durable alternative to OME I can recommend De Carbon which used to run on my 110 for a number of years.

One of the problems I experienced on my 110 on a recent ten month expedition was the nut which secures the drop arm to the power steering box started to work loose leaving me with steering drift. I therefore think that getting the right steering damper is important as this may have been part of the cause. In addition make sure the nut (which is located on the bottom of the power steering box - with a rather poorly designed locking washer (with little to lock against)) is cranked up tight before you fit your damper.

Before the expedition I fitted OME damper and shocks allround (prevention being better than cure). Whilst very happy with the shocks it may be that the OME damper is a little too stiff thus causing the steering bolt to work loose. A little further research may be in order.

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  #4  
Old 2 Sep 2003
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Sorry, not the answer you wanted to hear, but again, in my opinon OME are the best you can buy. No, they aren't the cheapest, but i'd say you get what you pay for and if i were trying to drive to Mongolia on a budget then this would be one area i'd be prepared to spent a few extra bucks for added peace of mind.
Simon Buck at Devon 4x4 is the man to speak to for OME stuff. A bloke who really knows his stuff, and won't BS you just to get your money.
Again, for steering dampers OME are regarded as being the best there is.


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  #5  
Old 2 Sep 2003
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Thanks for the replies.

I wanted to see what other shocks were an option, and that people had used and would recomended, other than OME.

Quite a few people have said they are good shocks but won't last much longer than a similiar pair of cheaper ones (basically, they are overpriced).

But nobody has ever been too specific about what other ones to use.

I thought it was worth while to look out of the box so to speak...

Cheers
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  #6  
Old 2 Sep 2003
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Well,

I've Monroe's and I'm satisfied. The difference in body roll and road holding after replacing worn out original ones is increadible.

Never used/drove OME, so I cannot judge wether they are worth the extra cash.

Rob
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  #7  
Old 3 Sep 2003
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Hi,
I have a similar "heavy" 110 which runs helpers in the rear and HD in the front. I've a dual Monroe Gas Matic setup all round which is working well.

Also run the same shocks in dual config on my 90 and worked very well on some fast tracks in Mexico.

I'm happy with them, and they're not too expensive and not too hard to get hold of.

Cheers,
Nick.

PS We're planning a Mongolia trip for '05, when are you planning to be there?

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  #8  
Old 5 Sep 2003
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Hi Darrin,

I am using Bilstein shocks in my Defender, and they have been excellent so far (the Africa leg of our RTW trip). Regarding OME, we met several travellers using OME who had had very bad experiences with them. When I lived in South Africa, I used OME a few times, but my impression is that they are designed for and marketed to the recreational market - longevity seems to take second place to branding and image. Of course many experts swear by them, I may well be off the mark here.

For the helper springs, spend £80 or so, and fit a pair of airbags to the rear springs. Best money we spent on our vehicle. I got mine from Foley, but here's another place that sells them in the UK:

http://www.affordablewebs.co.uk/vinc..._&_springs.htm

Let us know what you decide, and how it turns out :-)

Best of luck,

Michael...
http://www.expeditionoverland.com

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  #9  
Old 18 Sep 2003
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Thanks for the replies.

I'm going to go for some Koni's from Scorpion as I can't be bothered mucking about too much longer.

Them seem as good as anything else, Colin will do me a good price, he will give a worthwhile gaurantee for 2 years, and any spares I take can be wrapped and returned in a saleable condition for a full refund. He says most people sell there spares anyway.

So it sounds worth a try. I've had a few people suggest they were worth a bash and my landy mechanic with years of driving in Africa said they should be good, and it's unusual that he recommends anything but standard land rover.

So whilst they may not be better than the others such as ome, the fact that SR will offer good service to go with them makes it worth a go.

Naturally if one breaks I shall be on here complaining loudly that Koni are rubbish and that next time I shall be using.... blah blah blah :-)
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  #10  
Old 19 Sep 2003
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Interesting, I did`nt think you`d go for the Koni`s, keep us updated, as I know you wont be to overloaded, ha ha, so I say as I am laughing to myself whilst typing this.

Col Campbell
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  #11  
Old 25 Sep 2003
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Darrin,

You say you will be overloaded - do you know roughly by how much and how far forwards you can get towards the front axle?

I took an overloaded 110 (300tdi with self-levelling unit on rear axle) to Mauri last year. I estimate I had between 1200 and 1400kg payload, and it was biased towards the rear as we were using four seats and carried my XR650 on a rear rack.

My front suspension was spot on - standard springs and new gas dampers. My rear suspension was undersprung and underdamped - 130 springs and new gas dampers. I broke both rear dampers in the 1st 1000 miles of off-road.

The conclusions I came to are;

1) Load up and test the suspension (off and on road handling) before the trip.
2) Take at least 2 spare rear dampers

NB I got my money back on the broken dampers, but agree with the specialist that sold them to me that no damper would survive for long in the same conditions.

To correct the suspension problems I experienced I believe I would need to add helper springs and dual rear dampers. Ok, so I guess I could pack a few less things too - I only took 2 pairs of underwear, 2 shirts and 2 trousers, plus of course a few toys :-)
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  #12  
Old 25 Sep 2003
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Thanks Ian,

"You say you will be overloaded - do you know roughly by how much and how far forwards you can get towards the front axle?"

Not really, but a horrible sinking feeling is developing. I will try to get on a wieght bridge before I go.

I have the following added on:

2 spare landy wheels/tyres
brownchurch exp roofrack
eezi awn 1.2 tent
eezi awn 3m awning
heavy spare wheel carrier on back door, hold highlift as well
safety devices fuel tank guard
sd steering guard
two extra ali fuel tanks - total 210 litres plus 80 for normal tank. 165 litres behind internal baulkhead, 45 odd in rear right wing.
35 litre ali water tank in left rear wing - plus 5 empty water jerries - maybe one full at all times.

plus loads of heavy junk - waffles, tirfor, spares, wood down both sides of the hardtop, wooden platform to sleep on, but made of ali
to support it etc etc etc

I'll stop there as Roman will be having a heart attack otherwise ;-)


"I took an overloaded 110 (300tdi with self-levelling unit on rear axle) to Mauri last year. I estimate I had between 1200 and 1400kg payload, and it was biased towards the rear as we were using four seats and carried my XR650 on a rear rack."

Do you think any of your problems were caused by speed? You will be able to go much faster than me in my old banger non turbo etc
Whats a xr650 by the way?


"My front suspension was spot on - standard springs and new gas dampers."

Ok, thats me - HD landy 110 front springs and new Koni's.


"My rear suspension was undersprung and underdamped - 130 springs and new gas dampers. I broke both rear dampers in the 1st 1000 miles of off-road."

Mmmm...

When you say 130 springs, are they with or without the helper springs? The 130 springs (no helpers) are not as strong as the 110 HD ones according to the chart I looked up at Dunsfold last week.

The conclusions I came to are;

1) Load up and test the suspension (off and on road handling) before the trip.

Usual bollox of being pushed for time. Though, Morocco is really just a test trip for Mongolia as silly as it sounds.


"2) Take at least 2 spare rear dampers"

Mmmm... well I bought one spare rear Koni of Scorpion today, and thought I'd take some of the landy ones as spares...? I'm rapidly running out of money before I leave :-)


"NB I got my money back on the broken dampers, but agree with the specialist that sold them to me that no damper would survive for long in the same conditions."

Yeah, warranties are great :-)

"To correct the suspension problems I experienced I believe I would need to add helper springs and dual rear dampers. "

Duals sound nice - what is the best or cheapest way of adding the dual mounts at the rear?

"Ok, so I guess I could pack a few less things too - I only took 2 pairs of underwear, 2 shirts and 2 trousers, plus of course a few toys :-)"

Yeah, it's hard to empty a house into a 110 and come out of it looking like it might make Dover. So many interesting books to take...
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  #13  
Old 26 Sep 2003
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Interesting, I did`nt realise the the 130 springs were softer than the STD HD 110s, that might be a good option with the 110 HDs and the 130 helpers, I don`t know what I`ve got in the Camel, it has helpers, but I dont know the rating of the outer springs, I think I`ll look into it a bit more, unloaded it rides like a brick sh1t house, I hav`nt yet tried it loaded yet.

As for spare shocks, why not just take your old ones as they`ll do for a set of spares until you can source something better.

We ended up missing the last train the other night and had to catch a cab for the final stint, thanks for the invite it was a good night.

Col
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  #14  
Old 26 Sep 2003
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Hi Darrin, I don't want to go all techie on you, but 110HD rear springs, as fitted to hard tops and pick-ups are exactly the same as 130 rear springs. ie same part numbers! The only difference is the 130's have the inner helper springs. But, the 110 station wagons (5 doors, seats etc) have a self leveler (stonking great big thing in the middle of the rear axle) and sorfter springs to make the ride nicer, ahhhhh.
The double rear shock idea sounds like a real hum dinger (that means good!!) I sell these, but I think Collin does as well. These do require a little welding though.
Cheers,
Matt Savage
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  #15  
Old 26 Sep 2003
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Quote:
Originally posted by mattsavage:
Hi Darrin, I don't want to go all techie on you, but 110HD rear springs, as fitted to hard tops and pick-ups are exactly the same as 130 rear springs. ie same part numbers! The only difference is the 130's have the inner helper springs. But, the 110 station wagons (5 doors, seats etc) have a self leveler (stonking great big thing in the middle of the rear axle) and sorfter springs to make the ride nicer, ahhhhh.
The double rear shock idea sounds like a real hum dinger (that means good!!) I sell these, but I think Collin does as well. These do require a little welding though.
Cheers,
Matt Savage
Hi Matt, I don't want to go all non technical on you, but.....

To clarify:

110 HEAVY DUTY (not standard 110) springs were a few VERY small decimal points better than the 130 springs in the chart I looked at. (Very small difference Col, not worth doing anything about etc)

I looked as i thought putting 130 springs might be better, but it wasn't going to be - just add helper springs etc

Damn you Matt, now you have me interested in double shockers... ;-)
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